From Jim Gilliam's blog
A New Democrat
March 24, 2003 7:00 PM
I have never voted. I'm not even registered. It's not apathy, but more a silent protest against a hopelessly corrupt two party system. I don't believe in our political process, and rather than tacitly supporting it through participation, I have refused to participate.
Not anymore.
Our country is facing a crisis at the behest of a neo-conservative President leading us into fascism and global war. I can't sit by and let this happen. I'm terrified at the thought that 10 years from now when things are even worse that I didn't do everything I could to stop it. We must get rid of Bush and send a message to the world that this neo-conservative dogma is not what America stands for.
This President is a result of several decades of concerted effort by the far right to wrest control of the Republican Party. Thom Hartmann explains how we got here, and as a response, calls for a progressive takeover of the Democratic Party.
Thom, you can count me in.
The nature of our electoral system, or "winner take all" election process leaves us no choice. We're stuck with two parties, so the only way to seize power is to mold the platform of one of the parties into something worth fighting for. If ever there were a time when the Democratic Party needed such an infusion of new ideas, it is now.
There are only a few Democratic presidential candidates that are against the war. All seem unelectable, except one: Howard Dean. He electrified the California Democratic Convention last week, lambasting Bush's agenda. He's essentially a real live version of President Bartlett from the West Wing. Most importantly, he represents a substantial difference from Bush, and a substantial difference from the other Democratic challengers. He can be the leader for a new Democratic Party. Here is his platform, and a few recent speeches.
I'm ending my silent protest, and registering tomorrow, a new Democrat for Dean.
A New Democrat (03.24.2003)
Next Entry: Weeping at the Doorstep of Change (03.25.2003)
Previous Entry: Out of 300 million, Bush is the best you've got? (03.24.2003)
maggie: NEW
Jim -
I doubt that you remember me, but we met for about thirty seconds at the April Dean Meetup. You gave me the URL for you blog because I had asked if I could quote you on another blog.
Well after reading your new democrat post I went out and registered as a Democrat. I have been registered as "decline to state" for as long as I can remember, but I just can't take it anymore.
Thanks very much for the post and the links. You're making a difference.
Cheers!
Maggie
Thu Apr 24 2003 4:26 PM
Beth: NEW
I'm in too. Tired of watching this country get sucked down the toilet which is George Bush's utter and complete failure as President. Howard Dean is the man, the only man I can see in the race, who can turn things around. Bring on 2004!
Sat Jul 19 2003 5:43 AM
duane t. reynolds: NEW
like you said,a"hopelessly corrupt two party system",it seems quite contradictory to peg both parties as "hopelessly corrupt"then turn right around and advocate blind allegiance to one of the two.maybe you should run for office the way you doublespeak,but unless your' vote counts in the electorial collage,you're just wasting your' time as i've just wasted 15 minuetes of mine reading and writing on you're site, PUNK!!!
Sun Jan 11 2004 4:39 PM
Jim Gilliam: NEW
How is a progressive takeover and attempting to infuse new ideas into the Democratic party considered "blind allegiance"?
Sun Jan 11 2004 4:43 PM
"bigj": NEW
Been reading thru your web pages. Interesting. I also have a website (above) which you can check out if you want. I support no political party, left or right, & tow nobodys party line. Any cause which seems worthy will get my support.
The only group I ever had membership in is the "Canadian Auto Workers", CAW.
"Power corrupts & absolute power corrupts absolutely" therefore nobody & no entity should be entrusted with any type of concentration of power. So I say "all power to the people"; & that means political & military power.
Mon Jan 12 2004 12:17 PM
Lora Barnes: NEW
I can't for the life of me understand why a seemingly intelligent person could be so dumb. I think what you have done is nothing but a pack of lies that you have dreamed up. I am very proud of our President, nothing like our former president who did nothing. I have a friend in Iraq and he says the children absolutely love the soldiers and the people have more than they have ever had. You are showing the Bathe party images of what is going on...not the truth.
Thu Jan 15 2004 5:21 PM
Peter Aronson, MD: NEW
In 1992 I voted against George H W Bush and voted for an unknown named Bill Clinton. That for a doctor who takes care of a 40% Medicaid patient population in a teaching hospital was the worst mistake of my professional life. In 1995 and 1997 the Clinton administration's \\\hcfa mandated that attentings in teaching hospitals (except for primarycare physicians directly supervise of perform the critical part of every Medicare and patient workup or be criminally liable. That for me, a dermatologist was teh enitre history and physical. To finish clinic les than 3 hours late daily , the reident's often had to stand there and watc h the whole time. What sort of doctors were we turning out then? At the time for patient care (as opposed to teaching and researc) I was paid a whopping $180.00/week. Dr. Dean wants to place all uninsured on Medicaid. In Michigan, our medical center is the ONLY one that sees more than 10% Medicaid and we lose 25-50 cents on every one. Dr. Dean would bankrupt the Detroit Medical Center and every caregiver that is mandated to see significant poor in the country.. The lesser of two evils is still evil. I will vote for a real Libertarian in 2004 as I did in 1996 and 2000.
Sun Jan 18 2004 3:25 PM
Don: NEW
You are making no difference. One person out of millions...it does nothing. I'm a republican, however not registered, and I'm proud of it. You ultra-liberals are brainwashing everyone. It's sad really...
Tue Jan 20 2004 6:34 AM
Bill Becker: NEW
It is time for Jim to pull his head out of the sand, learn that you have to protect where you live, be a compassionate man and realize there is wars worth fighting to get evil men who kill 400,000 Iraqis, xxk Kuwaitis, xxk Iranians, ...
When do you say when Jim?
Who is holding your nuts Jim
Thu Jan 22 2004 8:39 PM
Jim Gilliam: NEW
If this is such a just war, why did the President have to lie about why he wanted to fight it?
Did he not think we could handle it? Americans wouldn't want to liberate a people from the tyrannical grip of a brutal dictator? Only if we felt threatened would we support such a just cause? The ends were so worthy they justified the means.
Or maybe he knew he would have to answer the question -- why this evil man, and why now? He wasn't committing genocide or holding hostages at the moment. He was even letting us inspect his country for weapons he previously agreed to not have.
Americans live in a republic, which means the citizens are ultimately responsible for governing themselves. One cannot govern oneself while being lied to by the people we entrusted to make decisions for us. Democracy is based on truth. Without a foundation of truth, our representatives can tell us whatever they want to justify whatever they want to do. That's not democracy, that's tyranny.
There are few things more honorable or patriotic than fighting to free your country from tyranny. If I lived in Iraq I would have been fighting against tyranny there. But I don't, I live in America, so I fight here.
Thu Jan 22 2004 9:34 PM
Wolverine: NEW
I'm and independent. Always have been. I was drafted in 1965 and did my time in Service...spell that NAM. I didn't like it and I wouldn't want to go to war again, but I would if I was asked to do so by my country...an unlikely scenario for someone my age.
You, on the other hand, have chosen not to vote, not to get involved...until now. What changed your mind, other than your obvious hatred for Bush? Where have you been? You say you choose to fight in America, but if it came to a REAL fight, I sincerely doubt that you'd be there to help. Fighting for what you believe in takes more than proclaiming your "patriotism" on a holier-than-thou website. Personally, I don't think you've got the spine for a fight, in fact, I'd be surprised if you have a spine, at all.
The Democrats are toast; Dean and the rest of them are jokes. With opponents like that, the Republicans will be in office for the next 20 years. I'm afraid you're gonna have to live through four more years of Dubbya. You and others like you had better hope he doesn't decide to bring back the Draft because that yould mean you'd all have to show your TRUE colors.
Thu Jan 29 2004 1:43 PM
Jim Gilliam: NEW
Just so the facts are out there -- I support the draft, and have gone on record saying I wouldn't pull any shenanigans to get out of it.
I don't think it's fair that a disproportionate number of poor people are forced to fight unjust wars, while the rich and powerful skate by. We just might have fewer unjust wars if everyone's sons and daughters were at risk.
Thu Jan 29 2004 1:54 PM
Brit from London: NEW
Tony Blair and the Labour Party....sorry New Labour Party are against a full and independent review of the reasons for going to war. Most of the Democrat candidates - even Kerry - seem to support such a review.
What do Democrats have to say to Labour supporters over here and why arent you folk getting your message across better?!
Thu Jan 29 2004 6:06 PM
Andrea: NEW
Wow, Jim, what have you been up to since Alaska?! I came back to your homepage today to discover all of this, DVD and everything (I'll buy one!)!
Mon Feb 2 2004 3:41 AM
Andrea: NEW
Now a little bit more seriously: I think this webpage and your effort to open people's eyes is GREAT. You know, over here in Europe, we might otherwise get the impression that ALL OF YOU US Americans supported Mr. Bush and his policy.
I am glad and proud to know one who thinks differently and who does not support a war which was fought for the wrong reasons (and there are not many right reasons for a war). And I think EVERY person who speaks up to say they don^t agree, makes a difference.
Sometimes, rarely, it is right to move into another country and to interfere. As a German I wouldn't have wanted to be brought up under Hitler's regime and I am grateful that the USA moved in and gave us a very good political system (which, by the way, allows fpor more than two parties). Yet, in the meantime, it seems that the values you tought us then, like freedom of speech, are being trampled on in the USA. How come that those actors and actresses who spoke their minds against the war are not welcome at the "Oscar nominations" anymore?
I sincerely hope that things like that are not the beginning of the end...
And...the USA did NOT move into Iraque to free people of their dictator nor because of any weapons (but don't these reasons sound so wounderful and heroic?) - to any well-informed person who does not just believe the propaganda, that much is clear.
Mon Feb 2 2004 4:06 AM
cool person: NEW
George Bush is the greatest president president alive!!! any time he helped the US more than any other president would. Put your feet in the area of Pres. Bush and you will see what hes going through and how much he has helped us out.
Wed Feb 4 2004 1:03 PM
Brad: NEW
Glad you supporting a loser like Dean and not a winner like George W. Bush. We don't need hopeless liberals running this country, giving everything away to people who don't want to work for it. Spend and tax democrats are a thing of the past.
Wed Feb 11 2004 10:49 AM
Jim Gilliam: NEW
Long live the spend and tax-cut republicans!
Wed Feb 11 2004 10:52 AM
paz: NEW
let me just say this, so you can stop wondering why democrats, and intelligent people like yourself, dont manage to keep Bush out of office: FOR GOD'S SAKE JUST SETTLE ONCE IN YOUR LIFE I'm entirely serious, and you can lambast me for it... If you think there is no difference between the Bush administration and the Clinton administration, then forget about ever winning in your life. Go ahead, vote for Nader like so many naive people did, or really show us all and dont vote! That sends the powerful message that you COULDNT CARE LESS whether Rove, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Bush are in office next year... in fact, if you can name that many shudder-inducing characters in any Democratic administration in history, I'll gladly retract my words. I am sorry your precious Dean didnt get the nomination, but does that mean that Bush is now better than Kerry!? If your goal is REALLY the removal of Bush and his entire administration, then you need to seriously reconsider who you support -- not five weeks ago -- but right here, right now.
Wed Feb 11 2004 2:30 PM
Jim Gilliam: NEW
You don't get it do you? Dean *was* settling.
He's a moderate that got labeled a liberal. Meanwhile, Kerry's the real liberal who somehow has managed to convince a whole lot of Democrats he can beat Bush.
I sure hope they're right, cause unless Edwards pulls a Seabiscuit, I'm gonna have to get a classic Massachusetts Liberal elected in November.
Wed Feb 11 2004 2:39 PM
paz: NEW
my point is not that kerry is the 'real deal' and that he can easily beat bush.. my point is that he has (so far of course) been chosen by the voters in democratic primaries as the man who will challenge bush. You can look at those voters as listless idiots who follow the whims of a republican media, and discount his overwhelming success and deans failure with voters. Or you can think carefully 'is kerry still better than bush?' if the answer to that is yes, than the path is cleaer: you have to go through with your mission statement of removing bush and support the poor liberal.
Wed Feb 11 2004 2:47 PM
Jim Gilliam: NEW
And I will, of course, support the nominee... while the primary game is over for Dean, it isn't over for Edwards just yet.
Wed Feb 11 2004 3:33 PM
Rodger: NEW
Jim,
I find the views on this website both intriguing and frightening. On one hand you say you don't want us to be involved in a war and yet, we have been attacked! Do we take the liberal stance and stand by and wait to be slaughtered? Or, do we do as we have always done in the past and stand up for what is right, even though Americans may pay the ultimate price? I have to laugh as you sit behind your PC and type up letters criticizing people who have access to more information than you can even comprehend and have made educated decisions based on that information. You mock our current process and you have the balls to say you have never even voted??? Men and women have died for the opportunity to have the right to vote and you don’t agree with the process so instead of trying to do something about it you have sat by idly and done nothing. Why don’t you do something and do a little research? Where was Kerry during the Vietnam War? Where was Clinton – oh yea, right…. Take a look at the world around you today – if we had a democrat in the White House, we’d be sitting back asking telling people that we are not violent and that America just wants everyone to get along. Well in case you haven’t heard, there are religious extremists that believe until every American is dead, they will not rest! What is your proposed solution for this? Do you think the Iraqi people are sad to see Sadam ousted? Only the ones who benefited from his heinous reign. The thousands of families who lived in poverty and lost loved ones were more than grateful.
In terms of the economy, take a solid look at the figures in early 2000 – you will see that the recession which we are now recovering from, started when the last President was in office. Clinton tried to take credit for the economy when he took office even though he was riding a high tide when he assumed the office. By the time he left, the economy was spiraling downward. When Bush took office, the economy was already approaching a recession and the attacks on our country did nothing but send it down faster. We probably could have prevented this if the democrats would have taken some action back when another true patriot gave some solid advice. Do you remember this?
It was 1987 and Lt.Col. Oliver North was testifying at the Iran-Contra hearings during the Reagan Administration. There was Ollie in front of God and country getting the third degree, but what he said was stunning! He was being drilled by a senator; "Did you not recently spend close to $60,000 for a home security system?" Ollie replied, "Yes, I did, Sir." The senator continued, trying to get a laugh out of the audience "Isn't that just a little excessive?" "No, sir," continued Ollie. "No? And why not?" the senator asked. "Because the lives of my family and I were threatened, sir." "Threatened? By whom?" the senator questioned. "By a terrorist, sir" Ollie answered. "Terrorist? What terrorist could possibly scare you that much?" "His name is Osama bin Laden, sir" Ollie replied.
At this point the senator tried to repeat the name, but couldn't pronounce it, which most people back then probably couldn't. A couple of people laughed at the attempt. Then the senator continued. Why are you so afraid of this man?" the senator asked. "Because, sir, he is the most evil person alive that I know of", Ollie answered. "And what do you recommend we do about him?" asked the senator. "Well, sir, if it was up to me, I would recommend that an assassin team be formed to eliminate him and his men from the face of the earth." The senator disagreed with this approach, and that was all that was shown of the clip. By the way, that senator was Al Gore.
Also, terrorist pilot Mohammad Atta blew up a bus in Israel in 1986. The Israelis captured, tried and imprisoned him. As part of the Oslo agreement with the Palestinians in 1993, Israel had to agree to release so-called "political prisoners."
However, the Israelis would not release any with blood on their hands, the American President at the time, Bill Clinton, and his Secretary of State, Warren Christopher "insisted" that all prisoners be released. Thus Mohammad Atta was freed and eventually thanked the US by flying an airplane into Tower One of the World Trade Center. This was reported by many of the American TV networks at the time that the terrorists were first identified. It was censored in the US from all later reports.
Before you go off half cocked and jump on the liberal band wagon speading lies and half-truths, take a look in the mirror and do some soul searching. What kind of country do you want to live in? I personally would like to know that the leaders of this country truly do have the safety of my family and friends in mind.
Thu Feb 12 2004 12:38 PM
Jim Gilliam: NEW
Why do people come here and assume I support the Democratic party and love Bill Clinton?
I detest both of them. Luckily, I don't have to deal with Bill Clinton, but unfortunately, I do have to deal with the Democratic party.
Yes, I know Bush didn't start the recession...all he did was add massive amounts of debt that my generation will be forced to deal with so he could give tax cuts to rich people and claim it stimulated an economy that has lost over 2 million jobs.
Yes, I know Clinton is responsible for not dealing with the terrorist threat when he should have. Very few people recognized the threat for what it was. Unfortunately, Bush (and just about everyone else) swung the pendulum the other way by exaggerating the threat it poses.
How to win the war on terror? Friends, lots of friends. Not sure if you've noticed, but our intelligence sucks pretty bad. Starting with the Carter administration, and continuning through Clinton our human intelligence capability has suffered immensely, forcing us to rely even more on foreign governments to track terrorists. Too bad this administration squandered the enormous outpouring of good will from the international community after 9/11. Makes it harder to catch those terrorists. Meanwhile, we're inspiring a whole new generation with our hamfisted approach to foreign policy.
And fundamentally, Roger, I'd much rather live in a free country than a safe one. Everyone knows the Ben Franklin quote: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Republicans used to believe that. Hell, this country used to believe that.
Thu Feb 12 2004 1:02 PM
Rodger: NEW
Jim,
Your thoughts are filled with contradictions. You acknowledge that Bush did not start the recession but that he added massive amounts of debt that your generation will be forced to deal with. I’m assuming we’re from the same generation and in terms of the national debt, that number has gone up slightly the last few years due to a decrease in receipts which was mostly due to the recession. Projected budget totals for the next few years reveal a budget surplus by FY 2005. A deficit is nothing new to this country – it has been around for several generations. You mention tax cuts for rich people – the rich people and the ones who pay the taxes. What do you consider Rich? Someone who makes 30k/year? 50k/year? 100k/year? Do you propose we give tax cuts to those who don’t pay taxes? That makes no sense. Things that are worthwhile require time – no one said things were going to get turned around over night. The current administration put a plan in place that has turned the economy around and we are headed in the right direction. The stock market recently closed at a 2 ½ year high. Interest rates are near all time lows, housing starts are up higher than at any point in history, and in the area of job growth we are starting to see improvements.
Do you really believe the terrorist threat is exaggerated? Not counting the thousands who have already died in the US in recent years, let’s look at the big picture. Terrorism across the globe is occurring because those governments have not done what the US is doing – bombings at nightclubs, hotels, banks, government buildings etc. We’ve got problems on our own soil with idiots like Timothy McVeigh and now the new kid on the block, Ryan Anderson giving information to Al Qaeda. How many potential terrorist incidents has our government already stopped with the stepped up security? No one knows for sure, but I do know that since 9/11 there have been very few small scale terrorist incidents and no large scale incidents here in the US. Is this because the terrorists are finished with the US and will attack softer targets? No. It’s because the US intelligence community is doing their job and gathering critical information to stop these threats. Where do you draw the line on terrorism? We know that Iraq had WMD’s. The former ruling party killed hundreds of thousands of their own people using these weapons – we have found hundreds of mass graves to prove this. What happened to the WMD’s that weren’t used? Shipped to Jordan? Who knows, but until there was an imminent threat to invade those weapons probably remained in Iraq in the hands of a terrorist.
How do you suggest we make friends to win the war on terror? Right now with terrorists killing anyone who is friendly with the US, who wants to be friends with us? If we get rid of the terrorists, we’re going to have lots of friends. With our recent success in Iraq, confidence has increased in our ability to gather useful intelligence.
In terms of living in a free country, America is choking on its freedoms. Our freedoms fill the air with perversion, profanity and sexual malaise. Leaders like Clinton who outright lie and deceive America for their own personal gain should not be leading our country. While some things are obviously not meant for public when it comes to national security, we need a leader who is focused on the issues at hand. We don’t some playboy living in the White House looking to have a good time and make a name for himself. You say you’d rather live in a free country than a safe one – it sounds like you should be living in Afghanistan with Osama – he is free to do whatever he wants… in his cave. I’m familiar with the Franklin quote and if you look at it carefully you will see that it says they that “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." What vital freedoms are you giving up? Life? Liberty? The pursuit of happiness? Americans have more freedom than any other country in the world. We are not giving up any essential liberties to obtain a little safety. We may be slightly inconvenienced in some cases to obtain a great deal of safety but far be it to say that your vital freedoms are being compromised to provide you little safety.
Jim, I’m curious as to where you stand on other issues – abortion, the death penalty, human rights, right to bear arms, etc. It’s interesting to see how people typically categorize their choices and while you don’t call yourself a Dem, you seem to have those tendencies.
Fri Feb 13 2004 5:47 AM
Jim Gilliam: NEW
Rodger,
I do call myself a Democrat, but it doesn't mean I like the party or agree with everything it does. I like to think for myself.
As for the rest of your comments, I don't like getting into arguments about Republican talking points with people, it's just a waste of time. I've got other things to do.
Fri Feb 13 2004 9:33 AM
paz: NEW
"america is choking on its freedoms" -- nice. finally a republican who can speak his mind about how this country's freedom needs to be curtailed... Of course, its not the official governmental (or party) stance, where they say freedom is important. If freedom is really the problem, wouldn't it be best for you to go to a more totatilarian state? Or is the goal to stay here and work hard until America achieves that?
...oh yeah and "Leaders like _____ who outright lie and deceive America for their own personal gain should not be leading our country"... I can agree with that, but why dont we wait a bit and see how history looks at our good friend Mr. Bush before we fill in that blank.
Fri Feb 13 2004 12:35 PM
Andrew: NEW
Standing up for truth amidst a culture of lies? Thats about the biggest joke I've ever heard in my life. I suppose I should feel safer now that Jim Gilliam is fighting for my rights. All I see here is another site which acts as though it knows all the facts and has its attacks on a society which you clearly participate in Jim. The "truth" is anyone can sit here and argue all they want about different topics but no one wants to actually go out and fight for them. If you actually cared about the thousands which lost their jobs or the innocent people dieing in Iraq why not go out and help those people? Until you do that I don't see how you could act as though you defend them.
Mon Feb 16 2004 6:19 PM
Justralph: NEW
Dean Electable? Ha..ha...ha...ha....!!!
You Liberals are hysterical......
Thu Feb 19 2004 1:45 PM
AnomalousTango: NEW
Jim,
I read some of your stuff here. Don't be disheartened by criticism.
It is natural for human opinions to be reactive and polarized.
It is only someone who can view his own thoughts and emotions objectively, as not being a part of their actual self, or a valuable aspect of their idendity, that stands a chance of rising above this quite natural result of metabolic underpinnings, that are themselves based upon dynamic polarization (such as the movement of a charge across a synapse - or the contraction of a muscle causing its opposing muscle to lengthen.
While the seeming opposition of the so called Conservative and Liberal political views seems without doubt to be of irrefutabe and obvious, even life and death, importance to those involved in this "debate" -- There are those who also look upon this mortal arena -- not with disinterest -- but with the clear understanding that this seeming, ever so important division, is a red herring.
It's sort of like, "Let's you and him fight," (while I slip around the back and burgle you both). The old divide and conquer.
As long as a person's thoughts do not lead to action, the power elite know that this persons thoughts are of no real consequence.
It is a rarity -- however -- that the person themself realizes this.
Sat Feb 21 2004 9:05 PM
Gandolpho: NEW
Interesting stuff, though I tend to disagree. That was too soft; I completely disagree. Nonetheless, you are expressing and defending your views which is what it is really all about. I'd prefer to see more people challenge you on the issues vice personal attacks so don't be so quick to discount the "talking points" and debate the issue as well. One could counter your rhetoric is Democrat talking points. The most important thing I can say though is--someone take the toad away from AnomalousTango before he licks it again! What was he saying?
Mon Feb 23 2004 3:25 PM
njguardsman: NEW
“How to win the war on terror? Friends, lots of friends. Not sure if you've noticed, but our intelligence sucks pretty bad. Starting with the Carter administration, and continuning through Clinton our human intelligence capability has suffered immensely, forcing us to rely even more on foreign governments to track terrorists. Too bad this administration squandered the enormous outpouring of good will from the international community after 9/11. Makes it harder to catch those terrorists. Meanwhile, we're inspiring a whole new generation with our hamfisted approach to foreign policy.”
“And fundamentally, Roger, I'd much rather live in a free country than a safe one. Everyone knows the Ben Franklin quote: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Mr. Gilliam
The way “we” win the war is we give our Military & Intel what they need to do what we need them to do, not gut defense, not change the coach in the middle of the game (elections), not give aid and comfort to the enemy by accusing our President with lies just because he’s not who you voted for, not backing some one who voted against almost every weapon system we have (B1, B2, Patriot Missile, Trident sub, F15, F16, M1 Abrams tank) just because he served in the Navy!
Where were our “friends” when we bombed an aspirin factory in Iraq, or Kosovo, what about Somalia, how about Haiti ten years ago? Were you as hard on Mr. Clinton as you are now on President Bush???
Do you want to have the responsibility of your safety put on the altar of the UN?
Why are you (libs, Dems, Progressives whatever you call yourselves now) so worried about not being liked by the rest of the world? News flash – we will never be “liked” by them, the only deal with us when the S*** hits the fan. We don’t have to be liked BUT we do have to be respected and Bush has gone a long way in getting that back. It’s about time we had some one with a pair in the White House
Since you’re so fond of quotes, I have one for you:
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants” Thomas “TJ” Jefferson
Thu Feb 26 2004 9:08 AM
KennyFromSouthPark: NEW
Jim, in case it helps. I think, in general, a democracy does not really work because only the leaders are privy to the most critical information, regarding economic data, military intelligence, and resources, etc... I think in a way it is wishful thinking to believe that voters are actually making a difference in steering the country in the right direction. The same could be argued about the electoral college. What seems to be clear in every election that I have been alive to witness over the past several decades is some sort of emotional element and a thing with swing voters..as well as a fundamental human element of likeability/charisma [witness the events of Arnie in California]...usually critical near the very last few months before the election...determines who is actually elected. People are generally too preoccupied with their own lives to worry about all the governmental issues and take them seriously enough to be extremely well-informed, while our elected representatives do a questionable job anyways or even ignore their constituency. The bottom line is that each individual is really in a way simply trying to push their own perceived and in some cases brainwashed agenda...something that they would feel comfortable with or think would help them economically, emotionally, or socially when they make their single vote.
Even if you or a reasonable number of voters were well-informed, it is doubtful that the majority will have been as well-informed as you to have made a good decision for or against a candidate. In general, I would say that we are all in some ways blind to the real truths. Each party seems to do an incredibly good job in suppressing the complete story. Money continues to play a huge element in influencing politics and we, unfortunately and indeed, all Republicans, Democrats, Independents, etc...tend to be pawns...pawns to the media, pawns to the suppression of knowledge/information, pawns to giant corporate influence, pawns to special interest groups, pawns to the church, pawns to peer pressure, etc...who all in some way distort the truth by not presenting or considering everything in a balanced light. Further, in some cases, the candidates make outright lies and unachievable but emotionally/economically-rewarding promises/claims during pre-election times, to hinge the voter. I think it is ridiculous for anyone to really claim one way or another whether John Kerry would be a bad president or even a good one. Even though I would think he may appear to have the experience and character to be a great President and on the surface may appear miles more intelligent, tactful, and leader-like than Bush, one really cannot say unless he is given the job and put to the test...to face whatever challenges lay ahead. It is even arguable that he may be more balanced and controlled and presidential, as he has demonstrated tactfully in the debates. It is arguable that this is a good quality to have in a leader, as it renders stability and confidence. Indeed, Republicans would argue that Bush showed himself both in strong form during the past 4-years, even despite nearly everyone on the planet claiming he is/was an outright moron before the election (and perhaps may be still is). We just really do not know until that elected leader is put in office, but we speculate unfairly anyways and we base our decisions on past performance, in a capacity that was anything but the same position or level of power. We also cannot really know the true grit of a president when the machinery behind him, consists of a prior father who served as president and several of the accompanying staff. In the end, it doesn't matter as long as we have good overall leadership and the president doesn't do anything grossly wrong.
In general, no one person in our government really has that much power anyways, and we slowly move inch-by-inch, year-after-year towards some special interest's and political party's agenda...a sort of tug-of-war, in which the two party system in a way keeps things in check but at the same time hinders real advanced and desirable progress.
I think the important thing is that people get out there, continue to debate, think about things and vote because may be one day if an actual majority of the public became fully educated (and was open-minded to begin with) and had equal and unbiased access to all the information and all the different views, our government could actually function more in the spirit of a democracy....but this is really just an ideal...I think it is an ideal that people get too passionate about because in general no form of government really works all that effectively from a majority rule....[everyone has seen this level of ineffectiveness from grade school on up and even at work]...especially with a majority that is by and large ignorant. This is just the truth.
Further, it is foolish for anyone to believe that good policy is policy that is based on popularity. That is simply untrue. One could claim that good policy weighs-in all the relevant information and resources and moves only after a thorough discussion towards an end for the benefit of the majority of the country. It is arguable whether George W. Bush excercised good policy-making skills during his soon ending term as president. In some ways, people can say he simply avoided good-policy making skills and made unilateral decisions...in some ways like a tyrant...but in others ways perhaps as necessary in order to get a job done, despite basically breaking the law for the sake of a claimed or real? insecurity. I think this raises a fundamental question about governments...about whether they are more popular when they are doing what they are supposed to, which is being inherently inefficient or whether they are more popular when they are actually moving in a progressive direction [perhaps to an unknowing awful state] or in some cases more popular when they are actually taking huge leaps backwards (which may be the case with Dubbed-Out-Dubbya). From this realization, one can see why so many people have gotten disenchanted with the governmental process...and continue to not care or educate/inform themselves about the issues and worst case simply not vote. Speaking of which, I forsee and fear that many voters including the young will be uninterested this year.
I think one of the very key things that is critical to a successful government is distribution of un-biased, complete information, debate, and discussion. It is essential that people express opposing views and no one view gains too much popularity or influence, because otherwise, down the line, some little guy is going to get crushed and that little guy might be you or me, which for Kenny's sake, "Sucks!"
What Dubbed-Out-Dubbya did the past year borders on extreme danger for a democracy...pushing it to the frontier of tyranny. However, his position may be defendable but it seems that very few if any past presidents may have made a decision so brash, ignorant, and swift as Dubious-Dubbya...that so nearly or completely breached our system of government and/or the international law of civilized nations. Again, his action may be defendable but at the same time appears dubious and out-right frightening if one accepts or believes that other interests from Bush, Sr.'s vengeance and legacy from the Gulf War, to the elected Bush Oil Corporation's apriori interests, his alleged involvement in the Savings & Loan scandal which economically crushed the Southwest and other chunks of the country in the mid-80's (and only now is back to where it should be), the placement of cabinet members and a vice-president with significant prior, unknown, or future oil interests, the huge money from these corporations and other wealthy entrepreuners' that supported his campaign, etc...may conceivable had desired this action all along. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know all the facts and I would argue with anyone here if they too know all the facts...ALL of them...to really know whether or not there was a hidden self-serving agenda. To be fair, you have to entertain the possibility because it seems so crystal clear with all the evidence, as Dean unabrashedly was pointing out in his own state of Vermont back in 2000-2001. I think it would also be unfair to claim that Democrats also haven't gotten kick-backs or benefitted from being in power, one of the most egregious actions was that from Hillary Rodsxcking Clinton. It also continues to amaze me how Dubbed-Out-Dubbya continues to make shallow decisions, which speciously appears self-serving for his campaign. I suppose the truth lies in that all politicians do this to an extent.
In some ways, it is really amazing that any of us spend our times writing these blogs or even care. But, I suppose, we cannot stop caring and we cannot stop trying to put a trench shovel in the gulley of corrupt political leaders or special interests, who seek every opportunity with the help of special interests to promote themselves and suppress the complete truth and use us as pawns (in war, in education, in taxes etc...) and in some cases outright take away our liberties (sanctity of marriage vs. homosexual rights to equality; Roe vs. Wade; Patriot Act vs. Right to Privacy). I suppose that is why we take this time out because in our hearts we really do love this country and do care whether or not it goes to the crappers or gets invaded or that our tax dollars are misspent or not distributed equally and fairly. It would be wistful thinking to hope more people cared enough also to learn more for themselves, to think independently and to get out the vote and to "stick-it!" to the bleeding hearts of the corrupted politicians.
In the end, it is probably safer to elect a president, who is well-balanced, with true grit, honesty, experience, and sound intelligence...and pray that the checks and balances keep that president from doing anything too crazy...someone who can restore the pride of the meaning of "United States of America"...at one point, not too long ago...a nation that was admired, respected, and emulated by many, instead of mocked at, laughed at, despised, and given disdain from our past very dear allies. Unfortunately, I think the only way to restore this is by a changing of the guard, as a president regarded as a monkey and a child serves little towards this capacity. Unfortunately, it would be nice if we had better candidates but that's reality...I think a reality that will happen this year to restore the leadership integrity of this nation, even if nothing ultimately gets done in a house divided. Potentially worse scenarious would be Kerry picking a dismal V-P akin to Liebermann or Cheney having a heart-attack after Dubbya dubs his mind-out finalemente.
P.S. I'll be the first person to admit that I am ignorant, but at least I'm here and I'm trying....I hope at least one person can appreciate my "W"-puns, which is arguably original.
Fri Mar 5 2004 3:17 PM
Jim Gilliam: NEW
KennyFromSouthPark, you're rad. The world could use a few more reasonable, open-minded people like yourself.
Fri Mar 5 2004 3:56 PM
kate: NEW
I support President Bush and will continue to be a female republican for the rest of my life. I will fight so that my kids will never have to live in the America of Hate and envy in which we now live in because of jelous hateful uneducated and thankless liberals. You are exactly what you are mad at- ABB?? get educated, get involved and wake up. Wake up and realize that this free country we live in is free because of the many soldiers who have defended our country... (YES.. THAT MEANT WAR!) I will continue to pray for our country and democrats alike... Support freedom, support values, support morals, support peace, support hard work, SUPPORT BUSH.
Mon Mar 8 2004 12:04 PM
Bob: NEW
Why is everyone so intent on fighting terrorism in the first place? It almost seems like we think we're going to defeat evil or something... Maybe, just maybe, we should listen to these people (the terrorists) and take their concerns seriously. The media keeps telling us (and we keep believing it) that the terrorist groups are a wild bunch of maniacs (who amazingly organized themselves into efficient and intelligent groups that repeatedly outwit all of the West's mighty intelligence and military resources). Maybe they're just really really really pissed off that the United States (and our ideas of economics, politics, religion, and values) is taking over the world and ignoring the desires and values of other groups who don't think like we do.
The one thing that can defeat hate is its opposite - love. Hey! That's a Christian idea! Aren't we a Christian nation?? Maybe we should start acting like it.
Mon Mar 8 2004 5:54 PM
njguardsman: NEW
Kenny
You know I was going to take each one of your points and give you my counter points but it all comes down to this:
You spout the leftist liberal points that every other lib does: People don’t know what they’re doing, Bush is an idiot, tax cuts for the rich, blah blah blah
The plain facts are: Bush inherited the recession from “Slick Willy” and the tax cuts lessened the severity & duration of the recession which was made worse by 911. I got a check from the government (and I’m not “rich”). Since 911 there has been NO NEW TERRORIST ATTACKS ON AMERICAN SOIL thanks to the policies, tactics implemented by George W. Bush and his administration (Evan though the French & Germans were being paid off by Iraq in the form of oil, by the way they also sold [against UN sanctions] surveillance equipment to Iraq that was installed on current generation [Russian] MIG fighters [also against UN sanctions]).
Russia, France & Germany these are our “allies” (please don’t make me puke) and people like you want to put OUR safety in their hands (UN)?!?!?!?
I have this question to ask:
When it all comes down who do you want to keep you and your family safe when the worlds terrorist want to destroy our way of life?
Oh and by the way the score is: made fun of GWB – 4, made fun of HRC – 1 guess I know where your loyalties are.
Mr Gilliam
You havent answered my question yet.
Tue Mar 9 2004 4:37 AM
Sally: NEW
I've been reading over your website for about 20 min now and I can't believe what I'm reading. I'm a canadian citizen and I don't necessarly like the party which is running but just because my neighbor does, It doesn't mean I will yell and scream at him. No wonder you american's are so angry all the time. look at ur president.
Fri Mar 12 2004 8:36 AM
njguardsman: NEW
Bob
NEWS FLASH – Terrorists ARE evil, we learned that on 911, Spain realized that on 11 MARCH 2004, Who’s going to be next??? These people ARE religious zealots who believe GOD is telling them to kill those who don’t believe as they do. They cannot be reasoned, or negotiated with and will not stop, we should have taken them more seriously B4 911!
Remember we are in a war for our way of life and we do not force that way of life on anyone who does not want it, That’s the difference between them and “U.S.”
Without security nothing else matters, not the economy, stocks, jobs – nothing.
Do you think the Christians just sat there in the lion’s den or did they try to get out? When Christians were thrown in the coliseum to fight gladiators do you think they just LET themselves be killed because they were “Christians”?
Sat Mar 13 2004 7:05 AM
fussbudget: NEW
Bob: Yeah, gotta love those terrorists - love will make it all better.
Free clue: these towel-headed radicals are determined to blow civilization back to the Stone Age and will gladly die in the process. So, while you're loving them, I'll be cranking out the reloads, itching to speed their trip to Paradise.
Sat Mar 13 2004 7:49 AM
njguardsman: NEW
Thank you Spain!!!
Because of your elections YOU have just empowered/emboldened terrorist around the world! They have been vindicated in their bombings killing their people and killing innocents and are now able to dictate national policy via TNT.
Tue Mar 16 2004 7:17 AM
mike: NEW
Jim, obvoiusly with your twisted and preposterous viewpoints, you have caused more objections other than agreements... the demo idiots will not govern this country for a LONG time because they are not competent. with the demo's it's like listening to a bunch of whiney high school kids... i can't wait to look at your site in november... i can see it now... you and the whiney demos will say Bush's victory over Kerry was set up... lets wait and see from you idiots.
Sat Mar 20 2004 5:53 AM
Shareef: NEW
Mike, I think Jim is proof that the political tides are changing. We Dem's are getting those people who are so damn mad at Bush to finally say enough is enough and do something about it.
Sat Mar 20 2004 5:57 PM
njguardsman: NEW
Shareef,
More to the point, Jim shows the desperation in the Democrat party because they know that for them to succeed, for them to get back power (which is all they REALLY want) America has to take the plunge back into: high inflation, high unemployment, another terrorist attack, stock market going down. What must it be like to want all these things to happen?!?!?!?
Wed Mar 24 2004 11:12 AM
Shareef: NEW
Wait a second are you saying this is the only way dems would get elected? It seems like the only reason we lost the 2000 election was because of a few hanging chads. I remember the economy at the time and, unemployment was low, stock market was high. The only reason the country took a slide to the right was because of the first terrorist attack.
Also you are using fuzzy logic....
(With the maybe possible exception of terrorist attacks) All that you have mention are effects of having Bush in office, that is 100% different than wanting that stuff to happen...
I'm going to assume that you are Republican so let me ask you this:
Would you rather keep a president in office who has gone aganist Republican values such as: lowering the role and size of govertment (the only 21,000 jobs created in Feb were govt. jobs), state rights vs Fed rights (gay marrage, hell even when bush ran for office he said this was a state rights issue), competitive markets (haliburton, economy, stock market).
Wed Mar 24 2004 12:37 PM
njguardsman: NEW
Shareef,
NO, you lost the election because you lost the election, even though you (the Dems) didn’t want to count votes coming in from overseas (military) and Gore would have won if he didn’t count only certain counties in Florida, the system worked the way it was supposed to. The terrorist attack happened nine months AFTER Bush took office.
OK, maybe you don’t want that stuff to happen BUT it would go a long way in helping your cause do don’t say it wont be good for you (Dems).
I am NOT 100% in step w/ the President, I have issues with him signing the largest entitlement in American history, letting illegal aliens work w/out fear of deportation, not securing the borders, if you look on Mr. Gilliam’s marriage sight you’ll see my position. The Halliburton Company has been used by successive administrations for contract work so what’s the big deal about it now? President Clinton actually gave them a job even though they were out bid by another company.
Wed Mar 24 2004 1:37 PM
shareef: NEW
The point that I tried gettint across that it doesn't take "high inflation, high unemployment, another terrorist attack, stock market going down" for a dem to get elected and the proof is with Gore losing by a fraction of the vote.
True about haliburton and clintion but were not talking about the occasional polictial favor we are talking about a giant blank check to a company that they have a vested intrest in. Conflicts of intrest = Bad for the country
Wed Mar 24 2004 2:43 PM
njguardsman: NEW
Shareef,
Don’t get me started on political favors, do you remember Clinton’s dealings with Tyson Chicken or what about Hillery turning 1000.00 into 100,000.00 you guys(Dems) have had the upper hand for forty years ending (for the most part) with the Contract with America in 94.
What are you guys running on??? Unemployment is lower now then in all the 1990s, we have had the best economic growth in twenty(20) years, people have more money in their pockets (thanks to Bush’s tax cuts) YES job creation is slow but it’s coming, so unless something “BAD” happens I ask again what can a Democrat run on in 2004?????
OH and by the way there were reports of people on your side wishing 911 would have happened while Clinton was President.
Wed Mar 24 2004 8:07 PM
Sarah: NEW
I was working in the WTC on 9/11. It has been a maddening experience to watch Busch try and manipulate the nation in to believing that Iraq and 9/11 are the same thing. Your documentary has given me hope. It was so clear and it explained so well how the Busch adminitration has manipulating people on such a gross level. I plan on buying several copies and sending them to everyone I know. Thank you creating this. It trully gives me hope that maybe this nation will actually be able accoutable for their horrible mistakes.
Tue Mar 30 2004 7:42 AM
njguardsman: NEW
Sarah,
Please tell me how President BUSH manipulates the nation? And please tell me what horrible mistakes the nation is responsible for??? It is a good thing that we have a man like him in the White House at this time in history.
Tue Mar 30 2004 10:22 AM
njguardsman: NEW
Sarah,
What could "we" have possibly done to warrant the death of 3000 people that all they're guilty of is going to work that day???
What did you do to cause this? I'll answer for you NOTHING!!!
This was an attack on our way of life by people who fear and hate us and what this country stands for...FREEDOM
They don’t believe in educating women, we do, they think theirs is the only religion, we celebrate all religions and even those who DONT believe.
Tue Mar 30 2004 11:07 AM
Arnold: NEW
Come on, don't bullshit me.
Sat Apr 3 2004 2:35 PM
Demoratassskicker: NEW
At first I liked your statement in general after all this is a free country where everyone including idiots have that right. However, once you mentioned Arianna Huffington and your book writing I just fell off my fucking chair laughing and I could not get up. I think Arianna had let you "huffed" too much of her whining wrinkled pussy. You need to get your mouth out and your head out of her ass at the same time to smell some fresh air of the beloved United States of America.
Mon Apr 5 2004 2:19 AM
brewster: NEW
Even though I am a Rebublican.. I still have'nt heard of a logical "plan" of how and to whom we hand over Iraq... perhaps it's in the working and it's previliged info... we will see.
Condi Rice is very impressive, I trust her more than anyone....
Fri Apr 9 2004 5:16 PM
njguardsman: NEW
Mr. Glliam
Did you like John "F" Kerry when he voted for the 87 Billion or Did you like him when he voted against it???
(guess we all found ot what the "F" stood for didnt we)
Sun Apr 18 2004 8:54 AM
Jim Gilliam: NEW
I can't stand John Kerry.
Sun Apr 18 2004 10:57 AM
njguardsman: NEW
Mr. Gilliam,
Since you cant stand John "F" Kerry, if he becomes the Democrat nominee will you vote for him???
Mon Apr 19 2004 8:39 AM
Jim Gilliam: NEW
Assuming he's the only credible challenger to Bush, then yes, sadly, I will vote for him. That vote will be added to my growing list of "not quite as bad as the other guy" votes -- right alongside John Edwards and Cruz Bustamante.
Mon Apr 19 2004 8:45 AM
njguardsman: NEW
Mr. Gilliam
I have this question to ask you:
Will you really place the safety of you and your family on the altar of the UN???
Think of that when you vote in November.
Thu Apr 22 2004 1:57 PM
njguardsman: NEW
Dispatch from Iraq
From a Marine Corps Officer on his SECOND tour in Iraq.
Americans Attention span is too short. We are used to instant gratification. Cell phones, email instant messaging, FedEx. We don’t want or expect to have to wait for anything. In this regard many people forget our own history. How long did it take our constitution to be written and adopted? How long after that was our own civil war, women’s right to vote, desegregation? Things that have taken us 200 years to develop cannot be instantly imposed on people who have no real concept let alone any history of democracy.
Most people have no concept of the culture. The majority of the people are very passive, will go out of their way NOT to disagree with or offend anyone. This unfortunately allows the few militant or religious leaders to have a huge influence over the population. But it allows them to swing just as easily tour side. They do not necessarily have any true loyalty but they are survivors. I think many of these characteristics are true of most Arab cultures but especially so for those living under an iron fisted dictator of which Sadam was as bad as any. Let’s not forget that on average he killed 29,000 Iraqis per year if you don’t count the two wars he started. To many Iraqis what happened 1000-1300 years ago is still very important and personal. Think of all those southerners who still haven’t gotten over the civil war and multiply that by 10. We are still the infidels over here.
All news organizations are there to make a profit. (This would take more time and ambition than I have in my current Pepsi deprived state. In fact it would probably require large volumes of alcohol.)
Political agendas and posturing have twisted and distorted what we have done and the real reason we’re here. This means the issues being discussed are largely irrelevant to the big picture. If anybody does not think this is ground zero for the war on terrorism they are wrong. Success here will not end terrorism but will establish a foundation that will allow the war to be successful. It is going to be a battle that continues for the foreseeable future (20+ years). If we fail here we will never be safe anywhere. It’s going to take time. If you have never been here you are probably never going to understand all the issues and the US media is not going to help – as a matter of fact it is going to make it worse. Everybody needs to slow down on the investigations, post mortems and writing the history books. There will be plenty of time for that 50 years from now. Right now lets do the right thing and finish what we started. The only way this will not be worth the price we’ve paid is if we, through our short sightedness and limited vision, do not see this for what it is and give up on a right and noble cause.
Fri Apr 30 2004 11:20 AM
njguardsman: NEW
It is safe to say that if John Kerry had lost his Senate re-election bid to Republican Gov. William Weld in 1996, Mr. Kerry would not be the Democrats' presumptive presidential nominee today. Mr. Weld, who won re-election as governor in 1994 with 71 percent of the vote, was a formidable opponent. In a novel arrangement, both candidates pledged to limit the use of their families' personal wealth to $500,000 for the general election.
Mr. Kerry, whose campaign outspent Mr. Weld's $12.6 million vs. $8 million, won the race with 52 percent of the vote. Post-election finance reports revealed that he received a last-minute $1.7 million infusion from his wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, who inherited the Heinz ketchup fortune from her first husband. Ever the master of nuance, Mr. Kerry claimed not to have violated the $500,000 agreement because the $1.7 million was a loan, not a contribution.
Fri Apr 30 2004 12:19 PM
Gerry Eve (UK): NEW
George W did not storm the White House,he was voted in,so vote him out...
I sat with my newborn son asleep in my arms and thought 'That idiot will take America into war ...any war!'
There's NO WAY the US can gracefully evacuate its forces from Iraq so a 'hand-over' is as good a surrender as any!
Sat May 1 2004 5:53 AM
njguardsman: NEW
Gerry Eve (UK)
I wonder what would have been your opinion if terrorists flew planes into Big Ben, and Buckingham Castle or Harrod's?
You just don’t understand, do you think this is all going to stop if we have a different President? It could get worse, did you notice what the UN did when they were attacked, they turned tail and ran. Turkey refused to let foreign military into the country and STILL they were bombed. This also happened to our “friends” in Saudi Arabia
Would you call Winston Churchill an "idiot" if he was leading you country at this time??? Did you protest your government during the Falklands war?!?
My countrymen and yours are “over there” so that my four year old and your new born wouldn’t need to be.
Mon May 3 2004 12:40 PM
Mike Rosenberg: NEW
God help us all if Bush remains in office. I am the father of two boys 23 and 20, also a Vietnam Vet, but I'll be damned if my boys are going to get caught up in some idiot's private battle. Turn it over to those fantics that don't want us there to begin with, and bring home our sons and daughters. War on terrorism BS! He should have learned from his daddy.
Fri May 7 2004 7:55 AM
njguardsman: NEW
Mr. Rosenberg
With all due respect for your service in Vietnam, your wrong these "fanatics" are coming for us and I for one would to take care of them "over there".
And George Bush Sr. should have gone the distance but he was a good boy and played by the UN's rules and that’s why we find ourselves there now.
Fri May 7 2004 10:53 AM
AthenaDaytona: NEW
Blown up by a suicide bomber in Israel the remnants of a bus was hitched on to a trailer, flanked by monitors displaying still images of the aftermath of said bombing. This Gruesome installation was then carted around the West Hollywood area (mostly Russian/Jewish neighborhood)..... To do what?!? What message was being put across there? I will spell it out, gimmie an...F...E...A...R ! What does that spell? Control! What does that spell? Propaganda! Fear mongering and tantamount to terrorism. It is the justification of power abuse and a steady chipping away of the basic human rights of the peoples of the world for private economic and religious agendas. Whoa... my head spins when I think of it. FEMA, PENAC, quiet amendments made to the constitution Limiting our rights to privacy and enabling a single person (The President) to strip the populous of it's civil liberties upon the declaration of a National Emergency. A National Emergency was declared on 9/11 and never undeclared, with a few well-placed "Terrorist Acts" within the country, your local post office could become your local work distribution center and your local school, a bread line. Protecting our freedom is indeed the most important issue at stake here; but from whom are we protecting it?
Fri May 7 2004 11:47 AM
njguardsman: NEW
AthenaDaytona
We are protecting it from all those who would consider women: property, slaves, chattel. We are protecting it from those who believe Islamic fundamentalism is the only way and everyone else must convert or die.
We are protecting the rites of people to give their opinions and not worry about getting stoned to death or have their right hands cut off.
"Blown up by a suicide bomber in Israel the remnants of a bus was hitched on to a trailer, flanked by monitors displaying still images of the aftermath of said bombing" - GOOD, I'm glad that happened I wish that would happen in the New York area, this country needs a wake up call to let them know whats coming for them if they "turn the other cheek"
"It is the justification of power abuse and a steady chipping away of the basic human rights of the peoples of the world for private economic and religious agendas." - Are we talking about black helicopters and conspiracy theories?!?!?
"A National Emergency was declared on 9/11 and never undeclared, with a few well-placed "Terrorist Acts" within the country, your local post office could become your local work distribution center and your local school, a bread line."- Are you accusing President Bush of manufacturing the War on Terrorism????
Fri May 7 2004 6:17 PM
Athena Daytona: NEW
Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses?
As far as I know it is no longer legal to keep slaves in this country but from what I can glean of your opinions you may not think that’s such a good idea. To quote an earlier posting from you…
“I am NOT 100% in step w/ the President, I have issues with him signing the largest entitlement in American history, letting illegal aliens work w/out fear of deportation…”
You realize of course with out that illegal work force the economy would collapse? You think though it best to keep them living in fear? Why? I am not sure you would even know the answer to this so I’ll tell you; they are better than slaves that way. Slaves you still have to support feed and shelter when there is no work for them. Here we have the entire economy standing on the backs of said illegals but if they dare to demand the same rights as the citizens they support then we’ll just send em back from where they came from. So it’s really “Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, as long as they will do hard labor for 5$ an hour…No wait actually we take that back it’s don’t send them to us, we’ll just export the labor to you.
“We are protecting it from all those who would consider women: property, slaves, chattel. We are protecting it from those who believe Islamic fundamentalism is the only way and everyone else must convert or die.
You make it sound like the entire Middle East is out to get us.
Does protecting our way of life mean that the rest of the world must adopt our constitution and live like us? Why not make it easier for people who want to live like “U.S.” to come and live here?
Other than Canada the U.S. has more land mass and less population than anywhere on earth, we have room for those masses to show the rest of the world by example that our way of life is a good way of life.
“We are protecting the rites of people to give their opinions and not worry about getting stoned to death or have their right hands cut off.”
How does that justify torture? http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/
We HAVE those rights; they ARE protected by the constitution (Unless of course there is a national emergency, then the Federal Emergency Management Agency, supercedes our government, our laws and our constitutional rights. Whom did you vote for in the back up government?) As soon as we can actually live up to our own utopian ideals then maybe just maybe we could have the right and the rites to prescribe them to the rest of the world. PNAC (my bad btw for my earlier reference being miss spelt) Policy for a New American Century is an actual document, a plan for the next hundred years, containing the signatures of some of the most powerful=$ men in the world one of them being the current president.
“Are we talking about black helicopters and conspiracy theories?!?!?”
There is nothing theoretical about this agenda it is in plain view for all to see. http://www.newamericancentury.org/
"Blown up by a suicide bomber in Israel the remnants of a bus was hitched on to a trailer, flanked by monitors displaying still images of the aftermath of said bombing" - GOOD, I'm glad that happened I wish that would happen in the New York area, this country needs a wake up call to let them know whats coming for them if they "turn the other cheek"
The point of Terrorist acts is to create fear, fear undermines freedom, action and tolerance. Fighting fear with fear on our own soil? Fighting fire with gasoline, excuse the cliché but that’s what comes to mind
"A National Emergency was declared on 9/11 and never undeclared, with a few well-placed "Terrorist Acts" within the country, your local post office could become your local work distribution center and your local school, a bread line."- Are you accusing President Bush of manufacturing the War on Terrorism???? (?!?! He did declare it)
You, I believe were or are in the military so you of all people should know that our radar grid is the most sophisticated in the world. Within minutes of those planes going off course not only did air traffic control know it, so did our military. The simple fact that we had the time to broadcast to the entire world, LIVE the images of that second plane hitting the towers but no time, even with prior warning to shoot it out of the sky. This raises my eyebrows; it looks an awful lot like it was allowed to happen. Now THAT would be a conspiracy theory. I am not accusing anyone of anything; I just don’t believe I have been told the truth of what happened that day. I don’t know the truth of it and I don’t believe you do either.
And BOB, thanks and bless your heart it is indeed true that fear can stop you’re loving and LOVE can stop your fear. There is a fellowship of love in the world as well as the constituent of greed; there are many of us and fewer of them than they would have us believe. What we think, how we vote, how we live and lead by example it all counts, and it all matters. Here is one good place to start, get informed. http://www.soros.org/
And YOU demoratasskicker: Quit yer mud slinging and actually contribute something to this thread, anything! Other wise take your 800-word vocabulary, volunteer and go die for what you believe in. If only so we don’t have to listen to your filthy fucking mouth anymore. Get an education they are readily available in this country.
Love
Athena
Mon May 10 2004 7:23 PM
Mike Rosenberg: NEW
njg,
First thank you for your respect for my service that was something we missed. First, Bush's War on Terrorism has some strikingly parallel tones to it. WE MUST BE IN NAM TO STOP THE SPREAD OF COMMUNSIOM; WE MUST REMOVE THE TYRANT TO FIGHT TERRORISM.
Bush uses his war of terrorism to stop anybody from saying something against his administration. The guy is an idiot who wants other people's children to die for his cause.
Afghanistan yes, I saw the point. Iraq no. To fight the war on terrorism we need to stop focusing our troops on places where don’t belong.
Beside, no solider should have to fight for a coward who used his daddy’s powers to get him out service. John Kerry has his issues, but he fought first and then used what is a free society to voice his opinoin afterward.
Tue May 11 2004 6:39 AM
njguardsman: NEW
Athena
“Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free” You forgot to the fine print – Those under 18 not admitted without parent or guardian – Remember Elian Gonzales?!?!?!?
“As far as I know it is no longer legal to keep slaves in this country but from what I can glean of your opinions you may not think that’s such a good idea. To quote an earlier posting from you…”
“I am NOT 100% in step w/ the President, I have issues with him signing the largest entitlement in American history, letting illegal aliens work w/out fear of deportation, not securing the borders, if you look on Mr. Gilliam’s marriage sight you’ll see my position.”- Wed Mar 24 2004 01:37 PM–if you’re going to quote me, please use the entire quote
- Illegal aliens have broken the law to come here they are criminals, they have thumbed their nose at American sovereignty. I am not against people coming here to better their lives so long as they do it legally.
- “You realize of course with out that illegal work force the economy would collapse?” Only because we’re “addicted” (for lack of a better word) to this because it’s so easy to find cheap labor- so you are for greedy land owners to pay these people almost nothing, what happens when these people get hurt “on the job”, what about their retirement, what about their children’s futures???
- For your information, I am the son of a Cuban refugee.
“The point of Terrorist acts is to create fear, fear undermines freedom, action and tolerance. Fighting fear with fear on our own soil? Fighting fire with gasoline, excuse the cliché but that’s what comes to mind” –
““We are protecting the rites of people to give their opinions and not worry about getting stoned to death or have their right hands cut off.”
How does that justify torture?” – Did you see any of these people being thrown off a third floor roof, how about having their tongues cut out, what about drilling a hole in a prisoner’s hand???
Were they mistreated? YES, yes they were.
Were these people wrong in what they did? Yes they were.
Were the prisoners abused? I can agree.
Were the prisoners humiliated? Yes
Were they tortured? No, definitely not!
Am I defending the soldiers? NO, absolutely not.
-Remember, This prison is maximum security, the worst of the worst are in there, do you know what they’re in for: terrorists (that if given the chance would kill you on sight), Iraqi soldiers still loyal to Saddam and other monsters that our military members have daily contact with. These men have rioted, attempted to murder guards and other assorted offences. Please know that I’m not making excuses for the SEVEN or so people who are responsible for those pictures.
-Were you this outraged when FOUR CIVILIAN CONTRCTORS were killed, ripped apart and their burned bodies hung like trophies, how about Dan Pearl and how he died, what about Nicholas Berg, the man they decapitated , what about the bus load of school kids that died when a bomb went off in Bagdad.
-I want an apology AND an investigation for these acts of murder!!!!
“Policy for a New American Century is an actual document, a plan for the next hundred years, containing the signatures of some of the most powerful=$ men in the world one of them being the current president.” – I’ve been on this site and I find nothing I have an issue with, we should do all we can to export freedom and safeguard our citizens around the world.
"Blown up by a suicide bomber in Israel the remnants of a bus was hitched on to a trailer, flanked by monitors displaying still images of the aftermath of said bombing" - GOOD, I'm glad that happened I wish that would happen in the New York area, this country needs a wake up call to let them know whats coming for them if they "turn the other cheek" - I think you misunderstand me, I don’t want a terrorist act to be committed I want that static display to be shown in the northeast.
Here are some websites for you:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/5/11/112439.shtml - Congress Ignored Reports of Prisoner Abuse
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/03/03/cnna.Dershowitz/
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4932951/ - Walking a Fine Line in Iraq
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/5/9/135645.shtml - 9/11 Flashback: When Libs Backed Torture
Mr. Rosenberg
I agree with you in part, There are some similarities with Vietnam & Iraq especially the media demonizing our soldiers, destroying their morale and over all doing everything they can to undermine a good and noble cause. Please remember we liberated approx 50 MILLION people in Afghanistan & Iraq and the majority of people like us and want us there.
Iraq (under Saddam) provided training facilities (planes) for terrorist to practice their “craft”.
Sir, George W. Bush is a Harvard Grad and no amount of “daddy’s” money could by that, maybe it got him in the door but that’s it.
I personally believe people’s main reason for joining the military is because they’re patriots, not to become rich or to parlay it into a political carrer. Just because President Bush served in the Air Guard instead of the “regular Air Force” does that make him any less a military member?!?!? If this is true then cheapen my military career and countless others!
About Mr. Kerry he is an admitted war criminal who has yet to be tried for his crimes in Vietnam, and this man wants to be president?!?!? He would rather see us as flunkies for the UN rather then lead and put America first. I question Mr. Kerry’s motives for joining the military specifically because he wanted a life in politics – as a means to an end, not necessarily to serve his country
I really don’t understand the HATE, just pure hate people have toward Pres. Bush.
I agree with what he’s done and frankly he doesn’t go far enough for me BUT he’s much better then the alternative.
Thu May 13 2004 11:27 AM
njguardsman: NEW
The other Abu-Ghraib Story:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/dhenninger/?id=110005081
Sat May 15 2004 12:29 PM
njguardsman: NEW
Click on the link above.
"This crime deserves condemnation from international medical societies, such as the U.N.'s World Health Organization, or the Red Cross. And Don North's film indeed should be seen--but may not be. After two months of trying, no U.S. broadcast or cable network will take it. This is incredible. TV can run Abu Ghraib photos 24/7 but can't find 55 minutes for Saddam's crimes against humanity?"
Sun May 16 2004 8:53 AM
threerandot: NEW
I think that we need to ask the questions. What is a patriot? Can patriotism go too far? What is worth dying for? Can only a few people fairly decide for an entire nation what is right and what is wrong?
Is it reasonable to believe so strongly in one's leaders to the exclusion of all else? President Bush is only human after all. Am I right? What are his true motives?
Was this War really justified? Why was it fought? Why was it so easy to capture Saddam? What about Osama Bin Ladden? Wasn't he the one who attacked New York on 9/11?
Is putting all of our trust into one leader wise? I'm just asking questions? Can using a gun on your brother really be the answer?
As a Canadian, I am shocked all the time by Americans who constantly feel that their actions are "justified", that being "patriotic" to the extent that the rest of the world doesn't matter is supposed to be a reasonable viewpoint.
In the end, it always fails. Many Iraqi's may or may not have a better life right now, but at what cost? How many people have to die for a lost cause. The US is there, in my opinion to influence those who control the world's oil supplies. If this action on Iraq helps individuals who live there, then it can only make them look good.
Their investment in time and money, not to mention manpower and swaying public opinion are some of the factors. They are there not to really "help" Iraq in what would appear to be the humanitarian way. They are there, in my opinion to make friends with those who hold the key to the world's oil supplies.
I feel it is their intention to create a government system in Iraq which will support US intiatives to control gasoline. All of the arguments as to why US occupation in Iraq has helped people there falls apart when one considers whether this was done for purely "humanitarian" reasons.
Why didn't they take Saddam out before? Why did they wait until now? Where are the weapons of mass destruction?
As to the attacks on 9/11, I think the US saw this as the perfect opportunity to rally public support for the war. Everyone knows that it was Osama Bin Ladden who organised the attacks on 9/11. However, before the war, a large percentage of Americans beleived that Saddam Hussein was responsible.
I kind of look at the US as the "bid kid" in the playground who just got a fat lip. The "big kid" is so mad, that he smacks the first kid he can get his hands on just to intimidate the rest of the kids from getting any ideas about punching him on the nose again. There are other reasons as well.
I see the War on Iraq as a "display of muscle" and a "show of stength". "Look, we're America and no one else had better pick on us again". This was a great way to rally patriots from around the country to support this war. Remember Bush's famous comments: "If you're not for us, you're against us". If that isn't supposed to be a battlecry, I don't know what is.
Iraqis may be better off than before without Saddam. However, are America's motives and actions justified? Wouldn't it have been easier to simply hire an assassin to kill Saddam Hussein? Did an entire army have to go off to fight a war against an enemy who had no real armies anymore? If Saddam was a real threat to the US, why didn't he launch an attack years ago?
In the end, whether or not I was in Iraq, I think that Bush and his administration launched this war and subsequent occupation for their own gain. If Iraqis benefit, then this just lends credence to the US actions on Iraq.
Right now, the War is very unpopular, but I don't think this will deter the Bush administration. They want control of the world's oil supplies, because the price of crude is extremely high right now. Witness Canadian Gas Prices right now. 99.9 cents a liter! Everyone isn't too happy about that. If the US can control that region, it leaves the door open for further attacks on countries that disagree with them.
No one can force another person to agree with them. Even if you hold a gun to their head and then they do what you want them to, underneath it all, you have an enemy, an enemy who may one day jump up and give you a "fat lip" when you least expect it.
America is hoping to keep it's friends close and it's enemies even closer.
Sun May 23 2004 10:33 AM
brew: NEW
In regard to the so called prison abuse...
WE ARE AT WAR PEOPLE and THESE PEOPLE INJ PRISON WERE TRYING TO KILL OUR TROOPS. DOESN'T ANYONE GET THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BAD THINGS HAPPEN IN WAR.... WE DO THINGS TO GET INFORMATION..... AT LEAST WE ARE NOT CHOPPING HEADS OFF...
Enough said.. MOVE ON!!!!
We need to talk of rebuilding, talk about how we are helping the average (Free) Iraqi citizen.
Sun May 23 2004 3:54 PM
njguardsman: NEW
threerandot:
“I think that we need to ask the questions. What is a patriot? Can patriotism go too far? What is worth dying for?” -More importantly the question is: What are you willing to do to save/protect/preserve your way of wife?
“Can only a few people fairly decide for an entire nation what is right and what is wrong?” I’m thinking you’re talking about our form of Government, contrary to popular belief, we live in a Representative Republic, we ELECTED George W. Bush to among other things to defend and protect us, we (the people of the United States) entrusted him with the welfare of this country. That means a majority of Americans believe in him and still do so this thing about “a few people” goes out the window.
“Is it reasonable to believe so strongly in one's leaders to the exclusion of all else? -Would you say this about Franklin Delano Roosevelt and then Harry Truman during WW2?, It is a good thing to question but do it before or after, during we must show a united front so that our enemies realize what they’re up against.
President Bush is only human after all. Am I right? What are his true motives?” – What are your true motives? Could you have some type of agenda?
“Was this War really justified? – YES!!! Yes it was
Why was it fought? – Because we were attacked, almost 3000 people lost their lives, and these monsters wanted to bring the free world to its knees.
Why was it so easy to capture Saddam? – The Iraqis hated him, we were lucky enough to be able to be at the right place at the right time,
What about Osama Bin Ladden? Wasn't he the one who attacked New York on 9/11?” – Yes he was but as I said in previous statements on this site, Saddam provided “passive” support to the terrorists.
“Is putting all of our trust into one leader wise? I'm just asking questions? Can using a gun on your brother really be the answer?” – Well your “brother” someone who hits you from the blind side totally unprovoked then yes.
“As a Canadian, I am shocked all the time by Americans who constantly feel that their actions are "justified", that being "patriotic" to the extent that the rest of the world doesn't matter is supposed to be a reasonable viewpoint.” – As an American I am shocked at how dismissive the world is to what we are doing, the problem is that “we”(USA) didn’t get your (UN) approval/permission to defend ourselves.
“Why didn't they take Saddam out before? – The United States has –or- had a policy against assassination Why did they wait until now? – Because we had, the UN had the world had information about what Saddam was doing
Where are the weapons of mass destruction?” – A shell loaded with Serin exploded affecting soldiers sent to disarm it, so do you think that’s the only one?!?!? A big problem I had was that we waited too long to invade, I think some was loaded taken on trucks to Sierra (another Ba’ath stronghold), how easy is it to hide a Petri dish of Anthrax in a country the size of France?
“As to the attacks on 9/11, I think the US saw this as the perfect opportunity to rally public support for the war.” – You (by this statement) imply that the war was setup and ready to go B4 anything ever happened, I am enraged that you would try to “politify” the worst day in American history! The same was said about President Roosevelt in 1939 that he had prior knowledge about Pearl Harbor and he let it happen.
“I kind of look at the US as the "bid kid" in the playground who just got a fat lip.” – Actually my take on this is that the U. S. is the big kid that knew what he could do to the other kids in the playground and did nothing, even after being provoked (Somalia), provoked again (Kobar Towers), again (1993 attack on the World Trade Centre), and again (USS Kole).
Time after time we have extended our “hand” in friendship only to have it bitten time after time – Any time there is something that happens in the world be it: floods, storms, famine what have you, we are the first to offer a helping hand, then these places thank us from one side of their mouths and calling us the “Great Satan” from the other side. And we still offer the helping hand!
The “Big Kid” is tired of being: antagonized, ridiculed, and scared to act when needed.
Mon May 24 2004 2:59 PM
njguardsman: NEW
“I think that we need to ask the questions. What is a patriot? Can patriotism go too far? What is worth dying for?” -More importantly the question is: What are you willing to do to save/protect/preserve your way of wife? * I meant LIFE
Tue May 25 2004 4:12 AM
njguardsman: NEW
Here is something you wont see in the liberal media because it comes from a "Greedy Capitalist, Imperialist Company" that's only there for money & oil AND wants to make Iraq the 51st State:
http://www.gcsdistributing.com/UntilThen.htm
Tue May 25 2004 11:50 AM
Jr: NEW
Bush Family is a family with no hart all fack and no soral we all know Bush Sr started all this mass from the last war we had with Suddam and we also know that when Regan and Bush was in office they where good friends to Suddam if you dont remeber that I fill for you man , any way yes The Regan and Bush and Bush Jr now the leader that was Elecited by the the suprem courts in 2000 I did not know we had a cry baby crying in the Governer House in Texas saying MY BROTHER PROMESS ME FLORDA now do you all remeber seeing this , it was all set up for him to go after Suddam by bomping Iraq 5 month in to his office and that is when Ben and Suddam set up a meeting to have the Al Qatia blow up the World Trade Center and this is now the way that Bush Jr can get back at US he dose not care about us the United states of America he is only in there to get revenage on us for not electing hes dad back in to office see look at it now what has happen
Sun May 30 2004 3:55 PM
brew: NEW
you are a complete idiot
Mon May 31 2004 5:32 PM
Robroy: NEW
Jim,
I enjoy reading your comments and agree with every word you've written. The big question in my mind is how in the hell can it be that fifty percent of the American people are not able to see what a total farce this administration is. I compare it with a nine year old who believes what he sees on all pro wrestling. If I take a couple hundred pounds of horse crap and wrap it up in fancy paper and put a big bow on it, will fifty percent of the American people really believe me when I tell them that it's not horse crap?
Wed Jun 2 2004 6:27 PM
njguardsman: NEW
The only “FARCE” would be & has been a liberal administration in the Whitehouse, and thinking it will all be better, we could apologize to the nice terrorists and promise we’ll play nice from now on.
Save the whales & the Spotted Owl but suck the brain out of a BABY that’s almost full term & just waiting to be born thanks to a Clinton appointed activist judge in that bastion of family values San Francisco, so if you want to thwart the will of the American people JUST FIND A JUDGE.
Now this is a load of crap with fancy paper and a big bow on it.
Thu Jun 3 2004 4:16 AM
Johnathan Mcnab: NEW
Bush sucks. screw republicans. democrats YAY.
Fri Jun 4 2004 6:21 PM
njguardsman: NEW
My tribute to President Reagan, (In my opinion) One of the top Presidents ever to occupy the Oval Office
-Funny how we’re still fighting for the same things 20 years later.
"I believe that faith and religion play a critical role in the political life of our nation -- and always has -- and that the church -- and by that I mean all churches, all denominations -- has had a strong influence on the state. And this has worked to our benefit as a nation.
"Those who created our country -- the Founding Fathers and Mothers -- understood that there is a divine order which transcends the human order. They saw the state, in fact, as a form of moral order and felt that the bedrock of moral order is religion.
In 1963 the Court banned the reading of the Bible in our public schools. From that point on, the courts pushed the meaning of the ruling ever outward, so that now our children are not allowed voluntary prayer. We even had to pass a law -- we passed a special law in the Congress just a few weeks ago to allow student prayer groups the same access to schoolrooms after classes that a young Marxist society, for example, would already enjoy with no opposition.
And the frustrating thing for the great majority of Americans who support and understand the special importance of religion in the national life -- the frustrating thing is that those who are attacking religion claim they are doing it in the name of tolerance, freedom, and openmindedness. Question: Isn't the real truth that they are intolerant of religion? They refuse to tolerate its importance in our lives.
"The truth is, politics and morality are inseparable. And as morality's foundation is religion, religion and politics are necessarily related.
And without God, democracy will not and cannot long endure. If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under." -- Remarks at an Ecumenical Prayer Breakfast in Dallas, Texas, 23 August 1984
Mon Jun 7 2004 2:31 PM
njguardsman: NEW
Here is where the entire speech is, about half way down the page its worth the short time it takes to read.
http://www.geocities.com/peterroberts.geo/Relig-Politics/RWReagan.html
Mon Jun 7 2004 8:37 PM
brew: NEW
cheers - I agree completely
Tue Jun 8 2004 7:12 AM
Mike of the Great White North: NEW
well, here's my two cents. it doesn't matter if you vote rep. or dem. (although repulicans act pretty f'n fanatical at times). Bush vs. Kerry? wake up... it's all the same. domestically, they may opposing views on tax cuts or envioronment.. but the foriegn policy of your country is a joke. i hear all the time from repulicans mostly, but some dems to 'they're fighting for our freedoms!' sorry you dum hick.. last i checked iraq was not about to attack and occupy mainland US of A. you had 'HIM' (aka saddam) holed up between 2 no fly zones, pummeled his radar and sanctioned his ass for the last umpteen years. im quite sure you were safe. so what does bushy do? he sends in young men and women (not his own family though) to fight an unneccessary war on the pretext of wmd (lie), on liberation from brutal dictator (liberate into abu gharib prison i take it) and has his vp DICK cheyney give lucrative contracts to his old company Haliburton for oil production (conflict of interest? hell no). And he wonders why they hate you.. for your freedoms? (you aren't free, the Patriot act will make sure of that).
I keep reading people stressing 'he was a monster, he killed his own people, he used wmd on them... thats why we went in!' <-- lets break this down shall we, for the uneducated. 1. many monsters out there, more terrifying than saddam. now that your stuck in afgan and iraq, what will you do if Kim Jul Ing decides to light up South Korea with one of his DECLARED WMD! (he says he has a nuke or two, why wasn't he first on the list?) 2. so he killed his own people, tragic yes. a pretext for war, hell no. i would not go fight a war to save the chinese from the communists because some got run over in tianeman square. you gonna liberate 1.6 billion from their communist oppressors? again why is saddam on the top of your list? 3. his using gas on his own people was indeed deplorable. the fact that Rumsfield was in Iraq shaking hands with saddam as the contract was signed for the US to sell WMD to Iraq is even more deplorable. YOU CANNOT JUSTIFY THIS WAR, unless you have have a piece of asparagus as your brain.
And heres where Kerry joins Bushy in the anals of stupidity. He supports this war too... NEWS FLASH you dumb retarded eggplants who start saying 'gee gosh darn it... dem ragheds iz tryin to kill us so weez shud kill dem.'... all Arabs aren't grouped into one lump sum. And Iraq sure as hell didn't have a damn thing to do with 9-11 (if you think so, join 80% of those uneducated eggplants who get their news from fair and balanced FOX news... your one stop propoganda shop)
and now get ready for the kicker... maybe i should get my lawyer first though, i hear the antisemite crowd coming.. when Bush asks 'Why do they hate us'.. before you spin off another 'freedoms' bit, think about the TOTAL, UNEQUIVACAL SUPPORT your country gives Israel and ask if that makes no diff to the problem. Let me state FOR THE RECORD; Israel has the RIGHT to exist. It has the right to defend itself from an attack of aggression. There. It does NOT have claim to any land it tried to annex after the 1967 war. (UN resolution) It has a duty to take all care of citizens under its occupation (UN and Geneva) It has no legal right to build and maintain settlements within the occupied territories (UN and Geneva) and so on and so on. There thats why they hate you. Because this is the root cause of most all Islamic terrorism, and until this is dealt with, your war will go on forever. And when the US veto's resolution after resolution brought against Israel by the UN, while Israel recieves aprox. 4billion of your tax dollars in loans and subsidies for building illegal settlements and buying US military hardware to crush palastinian people under occupation... do i need to go on?
didn't want to bring all that up but it goes back to your prez and prez wannabe. Both of them SUPPORT the 'DISENGAGEMENT' plan set forth by that beastly pig Sharon. In case you haven't paid attention, the plan means leaving Gaza (good) but retaining most of the prime real estate in the west bank (bad).
So to summerize... Root of all terror = Palastinian/Isreal conflict. Solution = US honest broker in negotiation of EXISTING UN resolutions to trade land for peace and a return to 1967 borders. Dilema = Bush/Kerry same foriegn policy one side slant to Israel. Cause and effect = never ending war. Never ending war = more loss of civil liberties in US. = Death of constitutional freedoms. = you decide.
America was built on the principle of taking care of her own people, not meddling in the affairs of other nations and not to go looking around the world for boogymen to destroy. Somewhere you lost sight of this. And the founding fathers are spinning in their graves over Iraq.
Wed Jun 9 2004 9:55 PM
njguardsman: NEW
Mike of the Great White North,
“but the FOREIGN policy of your country is a joke” – Do you say this when disasters fall on other nations and the American people come to their aide (economically, medically, and yes militarily? What about Gulf War part one??? When the US of A made up 90% to 95% of the total forces during that time. If I remember correctly Canada sent THREE ships (thanks for the help) as its contribution. YES our foreign policy IS a joke because we continue to help those who hate and despise us AND we’ll do it again (much to my disbelief).
As always the world waits for the U.S.A. to do the “heavy lifting” and then condemn us for: nation building, imperialism, oil, or some other alternate motivation. If we “wanted oil” we could have taken over Kuwait in 1991 BUT WE DIDN’T!!!!!! Your argument is FALSE.
Haliburton has been working with the American government for DECADES for both Republican & Democrat Administrations alike, as I’ve said before on this site President Clinton actually gave a contract to Haliburton even though they were out bid by another company.
“YOU CANNOT JUSTIFY THIS WAR, unless you have a piece of asparagus as your brain” – We have as much if not more justification for this war, almost double the people died on 9/11/2001 then at Pearl Harbor, the only difference is that we are not fighting a country/nation, we are fighting a movement [violence (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands] that knows no borders and DOES NOT CONFORM TO THE GENEVA CONVENTION.
As I’ve also said on this website Saddam (IRAQ) provided aid to the terrorists in the form of training grounds and our former policy of “Containment” was no longer working because terrorism knows no bounds. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060746734/
North Korea is also on the list (do you remember the AXIS of EVIL); show me that Kim Jung Ill ignoring 17 UN resolutions. If after all the things that Iraq did are repeated by NK then I will hold President Bush’s feet to the fire. He needs to also take a harder stand with Cuba and the FARC in Columbia and other terrorist organizations in the world.
Your argument about Israel is also flawed because the Palestinians were also thrown out of Arab countries Egypt among them I don’t see “Palestinians” demonstrating on the streets of Cairo do you?
“America was built on the principle of taking care of her own people, not meddling in the affairs of other nations and not to go looking around the world for boogiemen to destroy. Somewhere you lost sight of this. And the founding fathers are spinning in their graves over Iraq.” - If this were true, the world would probably be speaking German of Russian right now, no one could practice their chosen religion and so on.
Remember you statements when the next world war breaks out.
Fri Jun 11 2004 8:22 AM
Mike of the Great White North: NEW
njguardsman, lets take these a point at a time shall we...
1. Yeah, we sent 3 ships. Hey im not proud of the fact my liberal government has fucked up our military and thats all we got. Id boost our military spending. Humanitarian aid constitues only one part of foriegn policy and i never knocked your country for not being gererous with aid, even though per capita it is lower than other countries. but thats not the point i was making. when america wants to be be good, she can be. but right now foriegn policy is controlled by people who want nothing more than perpetual war. I dont know when war all of a sudden became cliche and was viewed as good. People die in these, civillians, soldiers, mothers, fathers... and on and on. Real people with real lives. only when its ours (western) does it mean anything. We lose 3000 people who will never be able to do things again, its tragic. So why do we not care, or try to persuade ourselves that the bombing of a wedding was just 'colateral damage', or the heavy handed sacking of Falujah which killed more civillians than insurgents(whom i will call patriots in so far as they see occupiers in their country that they want out... remember, youd do the same thing if any country invaded the US). To finish... i supported the fight in Afghanistan to bring in the person behind 9-11. Osama. He's the one who put the whole thing together. Saddam did not... this leads to point 4.
2. Sure, ill grant you didn't occupy Kuwait. You saved those rich royal monarchs and their oil reserves. It would have looked bad if you did take over Kuwait after you had gone to war with saddam to prevent him from doing the same. And lets not forget how democratic Kuwait is (sarcasm) and how the few rich oil kuwaitis control the rest of their populace. (i see women wearing burkas in kuwait, will you liberate them too?)
3. Hey ive got no qualms with you on the Clinton part giving a contract to Haliburton. Remember, im not a democrat... i think they're just as bad. That proves your 2 party system is really just one and a vote really doesn't mean much anymore. The fact is that if Cheyney was Haliburts CEO while working with the government, and now he's the VP of the USA and also giving Haliburt contracts outbid on, thats a HUGE conflict of interest. If it was dispickable when Clinton did it, its unethical for Cheyney to do it.
4.I understand that you are fighting against movement and not a nation. Terrorism is an ideoligy and a means to an end for politcal change. And thats why you wont beat it militarily. You have to take away the envioromental causes to terrorism. This isn't the same as appeasing. You still have to go after the perp (osama) and try him and execute him. But if you think you can militarily beat this down without creating new generations and more people who see America not in the same way you do, than your only fooling yourself. And lastly, Yes i concede the saddam was providing aid to terrorists, but the fine print on this peice is he gave money to family members of suicide bombers of palestinians. That is a regional conflict between israel and palestinians with no exportation of terror attacks outside those bounds. Hizbolah, Al Aqsa's, etc.. are all rebbelling against an occuping power (again i say, you wouldn't tolerate the chinese dismantling your home and making you have to go through checkpoints.)
5. Your stance on Nor.Korea puzzles me. Follow me if you will. 17 resolutions. This is the cause for the war. How come Israel hasn't been invaded yet... they've got 3 times as many resolutions against them. Saddam said he had no WMD, Kim said he did. Saddam let inspectors into his country, Kim wont until he can get guarentees the US wont attack him. The IAEA said saddam did not have a nuke or a program. The CIA doubted very much that saddam had the capability to. Kim kicked the IAEA out. The CIA takes his nuke claim VERY seriously. So my question again is, what made Saddam get to the top of the war list?
6. Again i will yeild to your argument (see, i have the ability to agree with a point, only expand on it too) Yes some palestinians were kicked out of Egypt, but most were not of Egypt, they were refugees whom Egypt did not want to take in. There is somthing summarily different between not wanting to take in an influx of refugees and the wholesale occupation of a people and trying to drive them out to make room for expantionist settlers whom believe GOD gave them that land and to hell with anyone else. They would rather see people die than give back the land they're not entitled to. And you've got to remember what i said about the root of terror. It doesn't matter how YOU percieve whats going on in the middle east, its what the people THERE percieve. And as long as they see Jews taking land they say is theirs, Jews shooting protesters with US M16's, knocking down building with US M-1Abrahms tanks, and firing missles into crowds with US Apache gunships... they will always come to the same conclusion that the US is the evil terrorist helping ISrael try to destroy them. If you cant grasp this, God help us all.
7. Dude, i seriously hope the next world war never starts, but i only hope you see that the current foriegn policy of both Dems and Reps are both leading us towards armageddon. Your friends with Pakistan now, but just wait till a day when musharaf is assisinated or turns, and hes got nukes. if you keep making claims the iran or syria have wmd with no proof... you'll scare them right into GETTING WMD, to prevent you from doing what you did to WMDless Iraq.
8. On a final point,not related to anything we've discussed... i worry for your troops over there. Since Bush and Rummy have thrown the articles of Geneva out the window and choosing when they can declare people 'enemy combatants' as they did to get people into camp xray and abu gharib... i dont even wanna finish this point. People agreed to sign and ratify that to protect the soldier. Ethically, if you invaded another country now (syria, N.Kor) how can you possibly expect them to treat POWs. They will be 'enemy combatants' to those regimes and your troops will suffer in any future wars because Bush changed the rules.
I like America, i really do. I put my own Canadian pride over on the backburner and say America IS the greatest country on the earth in almost every regard, economically, militarily, etc... so please dont let a few neocons send others to fight wars they wouldn't, bankrupt your economy, stretch your millitary to the point of bringing back the draft and bringing in unconstitutional acts the violate your god given rights and freedoms. Im not American and i feel like im fighting for your constitution harder than Americans will. And im sad Reagan passed, he was probably one of your best ever. And he learned right after Iran Contra that containment, not preemptive strikes was the way to go. The only thing he messed up on was giving Osama CIA training and weapons to fight the soviets. But other than that he was a great leader. Bush really could learn a lot him, if he can even learn at all. After all, he said doesn't bother to read newspapers. His words not mine.
Hoping for America.
Fri Jun 11 2004 5:37 PM
njguardsman: NEW
OK Canuck
“when america wants to be be good, she can be. but right now foriegn policy is controlled by people who want nothing more than perpetual war.” - First, this is a blatant lie, Were those “peaceful” people who flew planes into buildings? WE (USA) are RETALIATING after an attack on our sovereign soil!
“People die in these, civillians, soldiers, mothers, fathers... and on and on.” – People died in NYC (mothers, fathers, children) people died in Washington DC (mothers, fathers, children) people died in a farmer’s field in Pennsylvania (mothers, fathers, children) Real people with real lives and all they did wrong that morning was go to work and take a trip, who will never be able to do these things again, its tragic.
“So why do we not care, or try to persuade ourselves that the bombing of a wedding was just 'colateral damage',” – If this was actually a “wedding” the liberal media would have never let it die, we were firing on TERRORISTS.
“Sure, ill grant you didn't occupy Kuwait. You saved those rich royal monarchs and their oil reserves. It would have looked bad if you did take over Kuwait after you had gone to war with saddam to prevent him from doing the same. And lets not forget how democratic Kuwait is (sarcasm) and how the few rich oil kuwaitis control the rest of their populace. (i see women wearing burkas in kuwait, will you liberate them too?)” – DO you know that no Kuwaiti citizen works, all their labor is brought in from other countries. Burkas are (as far as I know) part of their religion, We’ll free them just as soon as we’ll free Jews from their head coverings or free Buddists from their robes.
“The fact is that if Cheyney was Haliburts CEO while working with the government, and now he's the VP of the USA and also giving Haliburt contracts outbid on, thats a HUGE conflict of interest. If it was dispickable when Clinton did it, its unethical for Cheyney to do it.” – So the U. S. Government cant do business with companies that can build infrastructure better/faster or construction companies to rebuild schools, hospitals & jails. What about communications companies??? ALL BECAUSE SOMEONE IN THE GOVERNMENT ONCE WORKED FOR THEM!!!!
“I understand that you are fighting against movement and not a nation. Terrorism is an ideoligy and a means to an end for politcal change. And thats why you wont beat it militarily. You have to take away the envioromental causes to terrorism. This isn't the same as appeasing.” *** Replace TERRORISM for COMMUNISM and read this again! Reagan once said something along the lines of: “the only way to have peace is to win the Cold War!” This nation’s 40th President (God rest his soul) knew evil has to be confronted, not contained. This nation’s 43rd President is following this same doctrine
” Your stance on Nor.Korea puzzles me.” – NK is like a snarling dog that growls when you try to take its food away but does nothing when you actually do it. NK wants attention, “look at me I have WMD” NK seeks to be a major player in the “nuclear club” and by not recognizing that part of it we are subverting them, China has 150,000 troops on the NK border just in case they get out of line. Is NK a threat yes , Are we aware of that threat yes, are we doing something about it yes.
“And as long as they see Jews taking land they say is theirs, Jews shooting protesters with US M16's, knocking down building with US M-1Abrahms tanks, and firing missles into crowds with US Apache gunships... they will always come to the same conclusion that the US is the evil terrorist helping ISrael try to destroy them.” - As long as there are terrorist that blow themselves up in buses, pizza parlors, schools, protesting in the streets with men in masks parading with AK47s THEN Israel has a rite to defend itself how it sees fit. Palestine was a region no one cared about until the Jews decided to settle there.
“Your friends with Pakistan now, but just wait till a day when musharaf is assisinated or turns, and hes got nukes. if you keep making claims the iran or syria have wmd with no proof... you'll scare them right into GETTING WMD, to prevent you from doing what you did to WMDless Iraq.” – FIRST, a WMDless Iraq is a FARCE. NEXT: the UN Russia, France, Germany everyone said Iraq had WMD including Kerry so I say again: Until you guarantee me that EVERY SQUARE INCH of