From Jim Gilliam's blog archives
August 9, 2004 9:43 AM
Two years ahead of its release, The Beast just put a trailer online. What is it about?
When her father, a biblical scholar, mysteriously disappears, a Christian high-school student named Danielle investigates. She discovers that he had stumbled across a cover-up of Christianity's best-kept secret: That Jesus Christ never existed.
Now that she possesses proof of this dangerous fact, Danielle must confront two strong forces: A band of fundamentalist Christians who will stop at nothing to suppress the truth, and her own desire for Jesus Christ to be real.
Diving into factual territory well-explored by scholars but largely hidden from the view of the public, The Beast is an epic story of innocence lost, faith in crisis, and the astonishing power of the truth to survive.
Presumably it's a drama based on the facts outlined in The Christ Conspiracy by Acharya S.
Thank God someone is doing this. The Beast's release date? June 6th, 2006.
UPDATE: I've gotten a few emails from folks that think this is my movie. It's NOT! This is the work of the very cool Brian Flemming who created Nothing So Strange about the assassination of Bill Gates.
Next Entry: Why Googleworld will beat Murdoch (08.09.2004)
Previous Entry: Yet another O'Reilly lie from the Russert show (08.09.2004)
Read the 36 comments.
I wish this movie was out this weekend to see :)
Wed Aug 11 2004 4:37 AM
Whadya mean I don't exist?! I've come back as Hitler, Elvis and now myself - hidden in plain sight- hidden inside you!!! Find me if you can! I hate the name Jesus - call me, ME
Wed Aug 11 2004 6:52 AM
what if it's true. That Jesus Christ never existed. that would change every thing.
Thu Aug 12 2004 12:52 PM
No man named Jesus Christ ever walked the earth. It's a sham! This religion promotes mental slavery. The story of Jesus is simply the re-telling of older pagan deities that were merely symbolic for the sun. It is sun worship! That is why Christians go to church on the SUN day.
Thu Aug 12 2004 1:20 PM
People who say Jesus Christ never existed are totally delusional!
Imagine this scenario: In Scandanavia, Mr Stefan Christ decides to emigrate to Mexico, he marries and they start a family. A boy is born, named Jesus, a common name there. Mr Christ gives him the middle name Heinz, after his father. The bottom line is that there could be literally hundreds of historical Jesus H. Christs!
Sat Aug 14 2004 6:00 AM
It sounds like a great movie. I just love stories about christians having a crisis of faith. They all should, of course.
The funny thing, as Acharya S. points out: It's a well known fact that "jesus" never existed.
The movie will probably end with the main character
marrying and keeping the faith, though, as most film do...
Wed Aug 25 2004 3:34 PM
Does this mean in 2000 years after I pass that I will never have existed too? Why does Jesus Christ change so many peoples lives, Kirk Cameron, Kevin Nealon and many others with Jesus words. And why are their so many christians today proclaiming his word?
Mon Sep 6 2004 2:31 PM
I just find it fascinating that 12 men (the apostles) met horrible deaths saying that not only did Jesus live and die but that he rose from the dead. They didn't get wealth or fame just persecution and death. That is a high price to pay for a special little secret lie!
Oh I know the Apostles didn't really exist either!
Fri Sep 10 2004 3:53 PM
I worship Christ freely. I am a "mental slave" to nothing. You either seperate yourself from God by doing your own "thing" or you seek fellowship with God who will show you the way, the truth, and the life.
The only mistakes there are in the world is the one's that we make. None of us are perfect. God is perfect. He has answers for your struggles. It is your choice to seek after him and learn from him. It is a free choice. The only "mental slaves" out there are the people addicted to sin: drugs, porn, sex, pride, etc.
Fri Sep 17 2004 8:27 AM
The fact that Jesus existed is indisputable. Read the historian Josephus from the first century AD. A man named Jesus taught in Jerusalem and was crucified. Whether or not you believe that His claims to be the son of god are true, is up to you; but there is no doubt that he existed.
Fri Sep 17 2004 9:10 AM
Wade A. Tisthammer:
Lets have no illusions. The belief that Jesus never existed belongs to a radical fringe group. Mainstream scholars overwhelmingly acknowledge the existence of Jesus of Nazareth. The existence of Jesus is no more disputed than the Holocaust. But of course there are fringe groups for both, stubbornly resisting the available evidence.
I actually hope this movie does get big. Then perhaps the myth of Jesus not existing will be better exposed for what it is. The case against the nonexistence of Jesus is no stronger than the case against Buddha or Muhammad. You don't have to be a Buddhist or Muslim to acknowledge that the founders of the religions existed. You don't have to be a Christian to believe Jesus existed. Indeed, most of the mainstream scholars are not Christians and have no pro-Christianity agendaboth big problems for those who push the theory that Jesus never existed.
So lets all hope the movie gets wide recognition.
Sat Sep 25 2004 1:05 PM
On the book "the christ conspiracy"....
The astrological junk in this book, as well as some inflamatory anti judeo-christian rehtoric ultimately knocks this book off the shelf of credulous research.
Fri Oct 1 2004 7:24 PM
I agree "astrological junk" and "inflamatory anti judeo-christian rehtoric" [sic] seriously dent credibility in The Christ Conspiracy. But the mythical Christ idea is valid. Dont throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.
Sun Nov 28 2004 6:03 PM
Mike of the Great White North:
I don't think it's ever been a matter of Jesus not existing. Historically the man existed and thats not in dispute. I dont even think the movie will try to push that theory onto the stage of reality no more so than anyone watching X-Men should believe there are Mutants roaming freely around the earth. It's just a writers way of trying to get people to think and talk. I'd say the movie would more likely try to answer was Jesus truely the son of God should God really exist?
Here's one area where i think the right is actually right. I grew up Roman Catholic and have since discarded it for athiesm and science. I found nothing in religion except backward answers and a humerous belief system and sick punishment system. (ie, pray hard enough and it will come true, though i guess the people of 9-11 didn't pray hard enough, so i guess God works in strange and mysterious ways... etc...) Ok, im a little off track here. As much as i've disavowed religion for myself and see it as a tool to keep the masses in line (evangilicals awaiting rapture), i think Hollywood does go out of its way to demonize Christ above all other dieties. Why? Is it because he's so popular? Or so easy to pick on? We wouldn't be having this field day if we were to dare say that Moses was a drunken fraud and let a bunch of jews drown in the dead sea. Imagine the backlash if Hollywood made a movie of Mohammed as a booze drinking, adulterous philanthroper until he talked to God and wrote the Koran. Why is it Jesus that we all love to pick on and savage on film.
Ill admit, i laugh at religion. I see it as a vice, used to fear people to do what they're told, to answer the 'unexplainable'. But at some point i have to ask why it's Christians that bear the brunt of Hollywoods wrath. Maybe those rightwingers are right, and hollywood is out to destroy Christ. He did exist. Everything else is belief. Either you do or you dont.
Sun Nov 28 2004 7:38 PM
I can see why Christians are vehemently trying to defend themselves against new (yet old) assertions as to the validity of the foundation and single key factor of their faith: The Resurrection. Anyone that has taken an anthropology course finds that the biblical Christ is in fact a fabrication, an iconographic image that has been essentially lifted from the convenient availability of earlier solar myths that originated in the land of Egypt. This had the purpose of appealing to the pagan audience of the new Testament writers, as well as to contort current events at that time in order to make it appear that Jewish messianic prophesy was being fulfilled. This in turn served to reach the second audience of the New Testament writers: The Jews.
In this sense Jesus Christ did not actually exist but was simply another increment in an already established historical continuum that had been in momentum centuries before, only to be retold again but with different faces upon the same characters that played the heroes and the villains. When this information comes in contact with the Christian ear however, a sense of fear and dread grips them. And the reason why this exegetical view of history has this effect upon them? They no longer feel special. But what is their greatest fear? It is the Loss of political control and Dominion over those that do not take their view. One would even say that they are in postulated relationship of dependence upon the unbelieving masses to inspire them to mobilize in a celestial sense of purpose, being wholly unique and important to the creator, without which they would all kill each other.
On the other hand (of the body) of emerging scholarship, is that a man by the name of Isa did exist whose life is parallel to that of Jesus in a small portion of New Testament stories, but was in fact married to Mary of Magdalene and had children and his descendants live today. What is not clear is weather or not he went to the cross and was crucified and survived or weather he escaped and someone thought to be him was crucified in his place. But what is clear is that there was no Resurrection that much is certain. This is unfortunately bad news for Christians who use Christianity to validate all sorts of worldly and political gratifications. On the other hand it is good news for them for they can be free to look inward for spiritual fulfillment rather that try creating the world in their own image.
It is of course their hope that the U.S. government can mandate Christianity as the law, putting the finishing touches on their artificial reality. This would enable them to live without challenge, never having to answer the hard questions they have no answers to because of their abhorrence to extra biblical literature. But soon their challenges will come when Dan Browns The DA Vinci Code comes to the big screen in 2006 to hopefully bring an end to this 1600 year old insanity launched by their father, Constantine.
I should know, for I
was one of them. I now have access to mysteries untold beyond my wildest dreams.
Here are some links to books for your own research:
Bloodline of the Holy Grail : The Hidden Lineage of Jesus RevealedSir Laurence Gardner http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=3B6sQm9AVy&isbn=0760762597&itm=3
The Templar Revelation: Secret Guardians of the True Identity of Christ-- Lynn Picknett, Clive Prince
The Woman with the Alabaster Jar: Mary Magdalen and the Holy Grail
Awash in a Sea of Faith: Christianizing the American People
Fri Dec 3 2004 10:33 PM
Let's have no illusions: The idea that Jesus Christ never existed has itself existed from the beginning of the Christian claims, as the more intelligent percentage of the populace never has just sat down and bought into every silly story that comes along. This "fringe" happens to be the most learned and intelligent of the bunch. The masses are not deep thinkers.
It's quite clear Jesus Christ is a myth based on older pagan gods. Josephus is a forgery. The Christ Conspiracy is a damned good book, and the "astrological junk" is quite valid, as are the sentiments critical of the Judeo-Christian reign of terror. By this childish argument, the "inflammatory anti-Christ Conspiracy" remarks should themselves lack credibility. "Credulous research?" That's not even literate--you really have no business criticizing the scholarship of Acharya S.
The argument that Jesus Christ existed because people have been "touched" by him is ludicrous. The thousands of gods and goddesses prior to Christianity also "touched" their followers and changed their lives, many hundreds of thousands if not millions of times. I guess that makes all these thousands of gods and goddesses real! What if you're worshipping the WRONG ONE? Egads!
Thu Dec 9 2004 4:12 PM
I take back my above comment. "Astrological junk" is a foundation of the Christ myth. Sorry about that.
Fri Dec 24 2004 2:54 AM
Rev. Keith Wright:
As a Deist, I believe that God created EVERYTHING perfect. I believe that God is incapable of being imperfect and that all of Creation is perfect. Look at the laws of nature to see the perfection in Creation. Man felt inferior to God and invented the Old (Torah) and New Testaments to make man look sinful. The sin is not being born a sinner, it is in rejecting the fact that you are are born a Creation of God. You spit in gods face when you think you are not born perfect. God is incapable of creating imperfection. the bible is one big insult to God. It is only when you get your nose out of a book and look up to see the beauty of Gods work that you will begin to see the true beauty of Gods. To say that a few hundred pages of human written text are all that there is is blasphemous. Nature is God's bible and the words are written in mathematics not word,. those numbers can't enslave man nor wear him down. I take responsibility for my own life and do not ask God to do my bidding by asking him to give me this or that. I thank God every moment of every day for giving me life tht is how I choose to praise God. God is not a megalomaniac! God is quite happy I'm sure and very secure in His Glory. To say that God is a jealous God is heinous! To say that God needs or demands our praise is another accusation I would never make but I thank God out of gratitude, not obedience. I am not a sinner but a perfect creation of God.
One of the most evil deeds ever done by man was by Paul of Tarsus who placed the myth of Christ between God and man. http://www.truthbeknown.com. I renounce Christianity for being an invention of man and I am now closer to God than I ever dreamed of.
Many have said that I am dead wrong...that Jesus had spoke to them or they had been helped by them...they were incapable of doing this themselves. Humbug. Remember the Wizard of OZ? The Lion wanted courage, the Tin Man wantd a heart, the Scarecrow wanted a heart and Dorothy wnnted to go home. They went to see the Wizard to get all of those things yet found out they had all of these things inside...yes, fellow humans, all of these marvelous things you make happen are not because Jesus is helping you because you are asking, it is the perfect being which you are, doing everything!
There is no need to be concerned about heaven for by merely being alive I have been rewarded by God. The elements in my body are simply a periodic table of the elements...with consciousness...The carbon in my body came from a star...unbelievable! I was once part of a star! We all were. We forget that and don't realize the incredible fact that we are here and able to love each other and express joy and feel and wish and experience all that is this life. I think that once we stop looking for God in a book, we will look up and see what God has created for us to experience as the gift that it is and not something we must earn. To put it another way. Being alive is like winning the $10 BILLION lottery. To look for heaven is like asking if the lottery winnings are tax-free! You fail to see the magnitude of your existance in this universe; the fact that all of your atoms were once part of something else in another galaxy, billions of years ago! The New Agers are partially right when they say we are all connected. Our body takes in water and nutrients and then recycles other nutrients cast off from other sources...yes, we are connected and must abandon the hatred contained within the revealed religions. Lets realize how small our planet is and honor and respect God by loving each other and in doing so, pay the highest compliment to God we ever could.
People are still stuck to this little book called the bible like a life jacket in a sinking ship. They claim it to be the "Word of God" sorry..God wrote the laws of nature and they don't need to be translated into any language nor adapted for contemporary understanding...mathematics is not a "dying" language. The bible is wrought with errors...just look for yourself!!! http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html
Footnote. Case in point. If on the first day man wrote that there was darkness then there was light, then on the fourth day God supposedly created the Sun, Moon and stars...then where did the light come from? And in the end times, according to the Christians, that there will be no need for light in the New Jerusalem because God will light the city then God had to always be a light being and there could never have been darkness. Remember? The same yesterday today and tomorrow? Even that points to the bible as being false. If God had a perfect plan for man then Jesus never could have entered into the picture. The creation of the myth of Jesus made God's plan (for the Jews) imperfect...along the lines of "if it aint broke: don't fix it". This further offers simple proof that the bible is a sad invention of man to control man. Furthermore, the whole idea of the bible may be simplified thusly...A guy takes his kids to the park and tells them not to talk with strangers but he knows that they will and leaves them there anyway...He comes back to find that they have disobeyed them AND eaten something that He told them not to eat AND He knew that as well. He goes up to the kids, gets mad at them and then kills them. He then makes the stranger an even partner in his business giving him equal power over the universe instead of killing the sick son-of-a gun right then and there fior messing with His kids! What would you do as a parent? Are you less logical than God the Creator? Can't you see the insanity in the logic there? It gets better. God waits for a few thousand years then thinks to himself, "Well, I must have been perfect in my original plan so I'm going to change my perfect plan and go and rape an innocent married woman and cause her husband to want to kill her for being unfaithful to him...I'm then going to make tables and chairs for about 27 years because the experience of creating black holes, quasars, stars, moons, DNA, the Milky Way and gravity wasn't enough for me...I want to hammer nails for 27 years!! Then I will go out and preach for a measley three years...AND NOT WRITE DOWN A SINGLE THING! Those who listen to my words will be so excited about them they will WAIT 60 YEARS TO WRITE THEM DOWN! In the end, I am going to sacrifice myself to appease myself and go back home to my beautiful heaven! How is it possible for an immortal being who has lived forever in heaven to come to earth for 30 years to consider a day of pain (Yes, I saw the snuff film "The Passion of the Christ" many more have suffered more than the character in the film for a lot less!) in an eternal lifetime a "sacrifice" If heaven is such a great place then why is it a sacrifice to go there?!!
I wish people would be honest with themselves and believe in God, if they choose to do so, and give up on the myth of Jesus, and the Qu'uran, and the Torah, and the Talmud and focus on loving each other, feeding the hungry, sheltering the lost and healing the sick. Stop looking forward to Armegeddon like a Muslum looks at martyrdom and look at the creation in front of our eyes.
If you don't believe in Christ but still believe in God but don't like dogma...come and visit our site.
We are an non-prophet religion.
Mon Jan 17 2005 8:15 PM
If Jesus Christ "NEVER" existed, then why all the hoopla about it? Why do the idiots who call themselves " Scholars" and "Experts" on the subject even waste their time trying to disprove the authenticity of the existence of Christ if indeed it's all a myth anyways? Any alleged "scholar", and I use that term loosely, can research any spiritual book of faith, whether it be the christain bible, the islamic quran, etc, and see that they basically run parallel with each other in beliefs. In reading a lot of these so-called "Scholars" works and the books they write screaming that they have found the truth about christianity, they always seem to forget the real evidence of what does actually exist about the pertinent data on Jesus, and for one, the Turin Shroud, The Spear of Jesus, The Dead Sea Scrolls, The Scrolls of Talmud, The Sumarrian Scrolls, and the recovered scrolls and teachings that were saved after the then roman/greek leader Caligula, or Ceasar(I can't remember which one), had ordered the biblical reference library of that ancient era burned and all its' contents so that they could rewrite biblical history and recondition the minds of the followers of jesus! That information is all public and biblical/scholarical record, and yet NONE of the wonderful so-called book writers like Archarya S and others even acknowledge these facts! Archayra's writings are, at best biased scrambled pieces of information to attempt to make the one true power of the universe the sun, surrounded by the rest of the solar system appear to be the center of all creation, but what she forgets is that she can't even answer the question as to just "Who" created the sun? I myself have questioned the actual existence of both God and Jesus, and after more than 30+ years of research, I am yet to find any info that discredits either of the two. Also, for the idiot who said that christains worship the sun which is why they go to church on "sun-days", well, if you had a braincell you'd know that it was ceasar who changed the day of worship during his reign for all religions that were under his direct rule, and ceasar also was one of the main players who redone the calendar so that he could remain ruler for even a longer period od days, months, and years! The bottom line is this, if Jesus is just a fable, then let the poor, pitiful christains alone to drown in their own cesspools of false hope, but, what if they're right?? That's the chance you non-believers are scared to death to take, isn't it?? Which is why you continue to struggle to try and prove it all a lie. All bibles say, those who stand for the name of God, and Jesus, will forever be persecuted, for they come in his name's sake! Now, look at yourselves and see for yourselves at the work the devil is using ya'll to do for him?? That alone should make it clear that, "YES", there is a God and Jesus, shouldn't it?
Sun Mar 13 2005 1:00 PM
Cliff, I understand you are a believer and respect the fact you have the right to believe anything that you connect to or and makes sense on the levels it does. I am still not sure what is true yet, but I am sure it will come, the truth that is. I did want to point out the the shroud is a fraud, and it was very obvious to me just by looking at it before it was tested , why?, because the man shown looks very old (70-80's) and that alone told me that it was a fake...if Jesus was/is real, he was in his thirties when he died on the cross, so, this man on the shroud is a very old man, and now tests have shown it to be a fake.
There was a documentary done on pieces and more that were thought to be proof of things of the time of Jesus , Old Test etc and what was found that anything that now is not found in the ground by those crediable excaviators etc can not be trusted anymore. There were found that many pieces believed to be the real thing in many museums and many credible places are now in question as well because MANY have been found to be frauds. People were found to be making these items/pieces etc and fooling most for a long time, until, it was found when recently a black soloumn's stone or something like that was being sold by a mysterious man who represented someone and etc etc and selling this stone for a very expensive price. The people in Israel / Museum started to test to see if it was real and the story goes it , after many tests, found it to be a fraud, a very excellant fraud. The man was found and the apt searched and many pieces / frauds in the making of all kinds....the result was now the authorities are afraid that most of all the aritfacts and etc in museums etc all over the world are infact frauds and since there were so many kinds of artifact frauds, it does not look good. They say only what is found in "arcelogical digs" can be trusted .
From what I have seen, most of the proof for the bible ..is the bible.. and that is not proof. The historian you spoke of, of haveing spoke of Jesus is also very seriously in question and not accepted by many and so there is no real proof of the God of the bible or Jesus from what I can see.
Sat Apr 23 2005 2:26 PM
Well, one thing is for certain, there are many different beliefs of how mankind imagines an afterlife and/or creation of life. The key word is "imagine", there is no proof! Religion cannot be tested, therefore it remains merely a belief of unsubstantiated theories. All other non-religious theories can be tested and proven, most scientific theories are over tested to achieve proof as best as it can be known by achieving predictable results, therefore a conclusion. Man has imagined over 2000 Gods in past history, a few have survived from the many. The surviving Gods are naturally questioned by many people who see several Gods that man is currently worshiping, because the remaining superstitions all claim that there is only one God! That leaves an unsure bunch of curious people who just want to know the truth bieng highly cornfused! If a man merely looks for a truth about which God is the right one, he/she is likely to be told by each and every one of these religions, that they are the right and only true religion, hence, more confusion, no clarity! If you merely accept one of these faiths or religions without checking the facts on all of them, only an uneducated decision can be the conclusion. One fact is, some have to be wrong, because most religions claim there is one true God. So if there is only one God, that leaves most of the world wrong in their beliefs. If there is more than one God that leaves most religions inept in their imaginary views. My querry is how can so many not see all the past worshiping of so many Gods and the nature of mankinds need to believe so intensely and nowdays most all those Gods are known to have not existed. We call them myths now and accept them only as that, a myth or superstition of mans imagination. A pattern has been followed by so many races and so many differently believing people over time. How is this so hard to see? This need or want or imagination has almost certainly dominated mans thoughts since the beginning of man. It seems so obvious, unless you do not think about it and choose to ignore it, the result can only be ignorance. Ignorance is just a lack of knowledge and can be changed by information and intellect or reasoning. Another fact is so many just accept what they are told without checking or they are trained over and over by repetative teachings for which there is no factual or provable evidence. This is known as brainwashing! One who has been trained in such a way, will most likely deny this, depending on their intellect level that is. One who has been trianed in this way will most likely not look for actual answers and stifle their own inner questions. This retardation of one's own questions can only lead to a continueing ignorance of all the worldly religious beliefs and man's desire to know the real truth about his imaginations and if they are viable. Please don't take the word ignorance to harshly, we are all born ignorant, but then hopefully we learn and cease this unknowing state of mind. Ignorance is a temporary state that knowledge cures. We all want to be considered smart or wise, we use our intellect to guide us in life, we should learn all we can about any subject before making a decision, so as to be able to make an intelligent decision. Look before you leap is a common teaching towards being wise. A life long decision of which God to worship and spend your many years of your life in belief of this or that religion, would seem to require a tremendous amount of research, unless you actually desire to make an un-wise choice.
As far as the bible, I have never been exposed to so much violence and contradictory writings in any path of my life so far! There are 6 sets of commandments (that I am aware of, so far), teachings and instructions of stoning and killing people as a result not following the commandments, right along with the instruction/commandment to not kill. Back to cornfusion! Human sacrafice is practiced, animal sacrafice is demanded, women are not given the same rights of men, slavery is instructed and so many are killed by their own God. Any one who argues with this has not read the whole book and researched it, therefore they are unimformed and do not posess a valid educated opinion. Yet so many (billions) will spend the rest of their life believing in this obviously false writing. Please read all and analyze religion before you reply. Check out web sites and books like those of Achara S and others who have actually studied and have educated themselves. I am so thankful for educated people like her, it is always best to surround yourself with smart people so as to become one of the more informed and wise. We have a lifetime to study and learn or to ignore historical facts and actual evidence. It is a process of time and knowledge. People who are stuck in limited views and information are destined to not achieve wiseness. Anyone who voluntarilly does not look at all the evidence is choosing a path of remaining uninformed. Religion has a past of way too much violence for me, it actually opposes the whole idea of goodness. The beheadings of one of todays religions and killing of innocents is not making sence to me! The murders of an estimated 10 million witches by Christians in europe and in these United States over a 900 year period is a poor example of a good and great belief system. The crusades and Nothern Ireland religious murders and not setting a good life example to follow in my opinion. Do you really think that these religious people are just in their murderings. So many people are eager to give thier opinion of how great their religion is, but forget that some of us actually see what their past religions have brought the world. There is way too much violence to mention, that religion has caused and is still causing today. Our president (Bush), was instructed by his God to kill Osama Bin Laden and his followers, imagine that,,,, what was the commandment about not killing? Seems he forgot or is mighty confused or just plain eat up with religion! Osama is all eat up with his religion! Sharon is fighting for his holy land and killing! The "Holy land" has probably experienced more immoral murder and death than most places on earth but it is "holy". How will you explain this away? You can't really explain any of the religious wars away but you believe in your heart that your religion is true and the only right one. Yet all the believers of other religions know in their "hearts" that they are believing in the right God. Do you people not see the conflict and problem, you can't all be right. For intellects sake look at the whole picture! Look at human nature! Look at mans past and all the immaginary Gods he has conjured up, are you so far away from what the uneducated of the past have done? Archaya S has performed a great service to mans intellect and explaining human nature and a desire to have an imaginary God. For the sake of the human race, we better get away from the past and the present of religious violence and false beliefs. All religious beliefs are thousands of years old,,,, this is the space age kids, grow up and evaluate these old beliefs and see that they all profited some self serving people that took advantage of the lesser informed and all for money. Please read about the big bang theory and science, evolution is in the process of proving itself. The computer you are reading this on is a result of science, your daily life would still be in the dark ages if you did not have science and education. Your computer started out as a electrical theory and was tested and tested again many times and now it is a way of life that was only a scientific theory in the past. How long can you continue to ignore the facts of science. It is a good day to learn as will be tomorrow! Every day starts school for those who are interested and smart enough to take advantage of it. I am sure the masses will still remain in the darkness of religion, but i also believe that a world effort should be made to educate the ones that have the ability to learn, and information as to the origins of religions should be exposed as what they really are. Lies for money or mere imaginations. Man has such great potential and this world is a beautiful place to learn about, our lives are beautiful, unless clouded by superstitions as in the past! I respect all life and love living and giving to friends and family and all the things that make living worth while, all from an atheist!!!!! Learn and become more towards your real potential.
Wed Jul 13 2005 11:30 PM
you throw out the accusation that people who do not believe as you are scared in case you are right. Well supposing that is true, a Christian once said to me regarding the kind of book you are criticising "If that's true then we are all damned." Her logic was faulty because really, if those books are right then Christians are not saved - those books do not prove anything about anyone being 'damned' and if fact carry the positive message that people are not going to be punished forever. The fact remains, she was the one who was scared of the truth. Many Christians are the same. They have to believe that the Bible is literally true - or be consumed by fear. This is because their belief and faith is not pure. It is tainted by fear and comes out of doubt and horror sown by centuries of anger and greed.
Christians often do try to frighten people into becoming believers. At least the writers of these books cannot be accused of that. People who do not believe in a literal Jesus often feel liberated from a lifetime of anxiety. I know of one ex Christian who told me in no uncertain terms that he felt his life ruined by the Church and now he felt he had new hope and was free to get on with his life. He was not a wicked person looking for an excuse to take advantage of others. He acknowledged that some of the Christian values were a good standard to live by - although they were not exclusive to Christianity. That is the point. "Prove all things and hold fast to that which is good". I personally have no quarelly with people who hold Christian beliefs or any other beliefs. It is when they try to 'trick' - no other word for it - they try to trick others into adopting the same beliefs by frightening people with their 'opinions' - there is no other word for 'them' either. If it is all unprovable opinion then people are free to adopt whatever beliefs ring true for them. That has to be better than adopting beliefs for the wrong reason.
Cliff, if you want people to ignore these books then live your life as an exemplar of Jesus Christ and as many people will follow your example as your example deserves. If you don't want to live as an exemplar of Jesus Christ then carry on as you are doing. The point is surely that as an ideal, an exemplar there is no reason for Jesus to have ever lived. It might not seem that way; you might feel less confident living by the standard of a living exemplar than a fictional one. The reality is it only requires a leap of imagination and a leap of faith. If your faith is strong enough you will do it and it is a liberating experience. Know the truth and it will set you free.
Mon Jul 18 2005 4:17 AM
Everything attributed to Jesus including his name and his mother's name(Mary from the Egyptian Isis-Mari) and his step father's name( Joseph from the Egytpian Seph) and his second cousin,John the Baptists's name( from the Egyptian Anup the Baptiser),the complete story,and the names and meanings of various towns and so forth are not origional in the least. Even the virgin birth,death,and ressurection of Jesus is borrowed myth from older pagan myths. So if you strip the name of Jesus away from him and the borrowed Pagan myth behind him what do you have? NOTHING! That's what. Even the writtings of Josephous are suspect in that the mentioning of this "historical" Jesus is written out of context with the flow of his other statements and older manuscripts of the writtings of Josephous make no mention of Jesus in them. In essence the Jesus of the Buybull is bogus and a copy cat myth at best. Any historical Jesus does'nt even add up either. At best the story of Jesus is borrowed myth from older pagan versions intertwined with a few historical radical Jewish rabis who were vehemently anti-Roman occupation who got lumped up in the fable of the Piscean Jesus myth. It's time to let go of the lies and start thinking for ourselves.
The only reason why Christianity is such a big deal in so many people's lives is because there is money and power behind it and the oligarchs of the church and various governments know that a complacent and brainwashed people make better servants and tend to be more patriotic and unquestioning to oppressive governmental control. The blue bloods in power don't want to loose their control so they support the people's BELIEF in the Jesus is the ONLY way to god retoric which is in itself elitist and hateful just as is the Muhamad is God's ONLY prophet and all Muslims are infidels or the Jews are God's "chosen" people. That is raciest and hateful and makes God too look shallow and bigoted worse than anything Archie Bunker ever was.
Thu Jul 21 2005 8:01 PM
The urge to argue against Christianity and any other system of belief is propelled by the hope that reason and logic can prevail over fear and superstition. Believers cannot tolerate the possibility that they could be wrong so they hang together and think of ways to condemn/destroy independent thought. But others have said it better;
"All religions are equally sublime to the ignorant, useful to the politician, and ridiculous to the philosopher" - Lucretius 55BCE
"The cure for Christianity is actually reading the Bible." - Mark Twain
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on
evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." -- Carl Sagan
As for the fundamental tennets of Christianity, the crucificion, death and resurrection, there is no evidence that this ever occurred. It was an oral tradition that survived the War of the Jewish Revolt in 66CE that saw an almost complete genocide of the Jews in the region. The second and even bloodier Roman genocide came in 125CE in response to the Bar-Koba revolt. The balance of the circumstantial evidence hints that there was a man who led one of the many resistance sects during the time, who was put out of business either due to his crucificion or escape (there is a place in norther India which claims to be the tomb of Jesus as well as a theory of one in France). The man might have been an important leader, but he seems to have been a short lived one. One scholarly writer has shown that the Kindom of God was most likely the name of his movement. One must remember that the Jews in that period were much like the Islamic anti-US (Western) religious/political groups today.
In any event, the burden of proof lies with those who claim that the man had a supernatural life that somehow distinguihes him from all the other preceding gods and "suns of gods" who were born of virgins, sacrificed themselves and rose again from the dead. It is actually an old pagan view of the cycles of the year. But it goes all the way back to Egypt and Isis and Osirus, who dies and is then revived by Isis and then issues their son, the god Horus. The study of mythology and its cause and effect in history is fascinating. The probability that the actual man was a rabbi and was therefore married and had children is more likely.
The mundane is always the most likely. Recall Carl Sagan's use of "Aukum's Razor." It says that all things being equal, the simplist answer is usually correct.
I have collected documents and marked websites for years now on these subjects. There are some really entertaining web sites out there. Here is one no one should miss,, http://www.landoverbaptist.org/quizlist.html It instructs with multiple choice questions and provides scriptural quotes for the correct answers. If I could only get believers to take these tests.....
I have even lived in Europe long enough to have done some field work and even been to Rennes-le-Chateau a number of times. The subject is fascinating. But the subject is the historical denial of the truth and the perpetuating of a monstrous fraud and the evil that this continues to do to humanity.
I could go on and on, but no one is convinced. I will end with a quote of my own, "Where science fails, superstition prevails."
Sat Aug 20 2005 6:22 PM
To the writer who says that Josephus proves the Jesus myth;
You are dead wrong, the single passage that mentions Jesus has long been shown to be a later addittion to the work of Josephus. The quote was way out of context in where it was placed, not of Josephuses style, but rather a known early Christian copyist and forger - who created most of what people like you believe. But even for studied theologists, Josephus provides no proof that Jesus was devine, or in fact ever lived. And consider this, the son of god comes down to live amoung men and doesn't even sign his own name or leave behind any doctrine, it has to recollected 50-60 years later by competing sects, anxious to promote their cult over other similar ones. A thorough understanding of real history completely bebunks the Jesus myth. If you want to believe the fraud of Christianity, and Paul even said it is his lie, "To bring you the truth," that is your problem. But stop reading psuedo histories bought in Christian books stores and look at the real events. You can't do it because, "You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on
evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." -- Carl Sagan
Sat Aug 20 2005 6:32 PM
Those who don't have beliefs (in religion or God) are passionately counting on this ideology to communicate that having beliefs is wrong. But then isn't it their belief that having belief is wrong? What is wrong with belief if it makes you stronger in positive way. If non-believers really want to take a rational approach, they need to conduct in depth research accomponied with a big survey among believers and non believers to establish that non believers are better off being so.
Mon Nov 7 2005 5:59 PM
THE REAL WISE MAN:
You see, Jesus Christ actually DID exist, but it's just a question of him rising from the dead, turning water into wine and walking on water. Personally, I prefer Budhism myself, but it may be that God just might exist and created all the other gods to they may have religions to sort out the believers from the non-believers. It also may be that whatever religion you are, if you are good you go to that religion's heaven when you die, and bad you go to that religion's hell. Or possibly be a ghost, (Purgatory) or reancarnate. Its all a metter of what you believe in, and besides, if were all God's children... whats so special about Jesus?
Sat Jan 14 2006 1:34 PM
I'm sorry some say that Jesus Christ never existed. Even excluding biblical test, there were other's who documented his existance. Josephus for example. Perhaps if those who say he never existed spent less time making empty comments, and searched for him, they would find that he did in fact exist. And he'll reveal himself in a personal spiritual way to those who diligently seek him still.
Mon Jan 23 2006 4:38 PM
Jesus Christ! Enough already!
(Hey, I just used HIS name in vain! So, where's my bolt of lightning?)
Personally, I don't give a damn what ANYBODY believes, okay! I'll be nice to you if you do likewise. Just to be fair I'll even be nice to you first!
To those people who believe in J.C. and the Sunshine Boys, well I'm just so happy for you.
Tell you what, don't bother me with it and try to keep it to yourself and we'll get along fine!
To those who don't believe, here's a clue: If you believe in yourself you're almost halfway there! Keep going and someday you'll make it!
To the rest:
You don't have to believe in yourself... You should already know! If you don't, then you're not paying attention!
God knows I'm telling you the truth! I see him every morning! He's looking at me in the mirror when I shave! We even have the same moustache!!!
(Damn! Where is that bolt of lightning??!)
Tue Apr 25 2006 6:00 AM
OMG this is ludicrous! everyone doing the "jesus" thing has been brain washed...were you born believing in Jesus? fuck were you. Someone got a hold of you one day and told you about him therefore making you believe in him.
I think all these bloody people who claim to know god and believe in him are too weak to take responsibility for their own actions and say "its what jesus wanted" errm hate to say it but you wouldnt have done it if you didnt want to.
if theres a god why do children get killed? if theres a god why is it always the good ones that go and not the bad?
Sun May 28 2006 8:20 PM
Yes, I agree. Thats why I love this qute by eric hoffer. Could not have said better:
"The inordinately selfish are particularly suseptable to frustration. The more selfish a person, the more poignant his dissappointments. It is the inordinatly Selfish, therefore, who are likely to be the most persuasive champions of selflessness.
The fiercest fanactics are often selfish people who were forced by innate shortcomings or external circumstances to lose faith in their own selves. They separate the excelent instrument of their selfishness from their innafectual selves and attach it to some holy cause. and though it be a faith of love and humility they adopt, they can niether be loving nor humble."
*Eric Hoffer (winner of the Presidential medal of freedom) --The True Believer: Thoughts On The Nature Of Mass Movements --1951 Pg.48
Wed May 31 2006 5:13 AM
man jesus does exsist you believe by faith not by sight and on top of that this movie is just trying to decive everyone who sees is it. Including YOU!!!
Sun Jun 18 2006 10:58 PM
I was reading about Josephies:
This comes from Wikipedia the last line:
Reference to Jesus as brother of James
The other reference in the works of Josephus often cited to support the historicity of Jesus is also in the Antiquities, in the first paragraph of book 20, chapter 9. It concerns the execution of a man whom traditional scholarship identifies as James the Just.
"And now Caesar, upon hearing the death of Festus, sent Albinus into Judea, as procurator. But the king deprived Joseph of the high priesthood, and bestowed the succession to that dignity on the son of Ananus, who was also himself called Ananus. Now the report goes that this eldest Ananus proved a most fortunate man; for he had five sons who had all performed the office of a high priest to God, and who had himself enjoyed that dignity a long time formerly, which had never happened to any other of our high priests. But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done; they also sent to the king, desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a sanhedrin without his consent. Whereupon Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, and made Jesus, the son of Damneus, high priest."
This paragraph is generally accepted as authentic by scholars, although there is debate as to whether the words who was called Christ were in the original passage, or were a later interpolation. The above quotation from the Antiquities is considered authentic by the majority of scholars. Even most scholars who hold that the Testimonium is inauthentic regard the xx 9.1. reference as original to Josephus. Unlike the Testimonium, the xx 9.1. reference was mentioned in several places by Origen. A small minority, including Zindler, challenge the passage in its entirety, noting contradictions in both the characterization of Ananus and the chronology of his tenure between the passages in the Antiquities and the Jewish Wars.
Sat Apr 14 2007 5:27 AM
The key word is authentic:
Read about Josephies on Wikipedia MOST SCHOLERS DO ACCEPT IT AS REAL.
Sat Apr 14 2007 5:30 AM
Oh in 1961 they found evidence that Pilate existed.
Its funny they had no evidence he existed before when these scolars were saying Jesus probably didn't exist
Sat Apr 14 2007 5:36 AM
ONE MORE THING
Today almost no secular scholar holds that position: however, many writers claim that Josephus did write something about Jesus which has been corrupted in the surviving Greek text.
Sat Apr 14 2007 5:45 AM