From Jim Gilliam's blog archives
"wasting people's lives"

June 12, 2006 1:26 PM

New 'Iraq for Sale' trailer:

YouTube link, Quicktime download

More from the archive in Business, Corruption, Movies, Patriotism.

"wasting people's lives" (06.12.2006)

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Previous Entry: Wisdom in the Feedback Loop (06.12.2006)

Read the 20 comments.

Andy:

Yada yada yada, sounds like the same ol’ boring rhetoric to me. I'm was and always will be completely against the war from day one. You think if we (people that haven't drunk the Bush kool aid yet) keep regurgitating this crap we'll ever get anyone elected into office that is worth a damn? Hell no.

Tue Jun 13 2006 12:13 PM


Tom from Madison:

I have a hard time believing Andy is REALLY anti-war.

It's not alright that thousands of lives and billions of taxpayer $ keep getting thrown away on this War. Making this real to average people is absolutely key. This film promises to do just that!

We need a lot more of this kind of documentary. Beyond that we need to hold leaders accountable for their lies, deceit, and looting of the treasury. The worst thing opponents of the war could do now is stay silent. We need to seize power and put an end to the madness and the fraud! 2006 elections are a golden opportunity to throw the Bums out. A Democratic House would go a LONG way toward making it happen!

Tue Jun 13 2006 4:48 PM


Right Wing Robby:

Andy is a voice of reason among kooks. He realizes that saying the same thing that hasnt worked over and over again isnt about to win this time.

You want to win 2006, but are going to say the same things that have lost you election after election. Good luck with that plan!

Wed Jun 14 2006 10:49 AM


Tom from Madison:

The battle of hearts and minds is being won by progressives. Democrats will do well to force Republicans to run on their own pathetic record.

America is now known for torture. Billions of $ have been given to the likes of Halliburton. This money was STOLEN from the taxpayers. WE WANT IT BACK! What do think the odds are that George Bush would even think about allowing that to happen?

Economic justice will be a huge rallying cry. Republicans are literally borrowing money from China to finance a war of dominion in Iraq. Then they claim to be doing it for the good of the Iraqi people and the security of America!? Only sociopathic profiteers would support this kind of lunacy. Future generations will look at trillions of dollars of debt and wonder how Americans could have ever be so duped by the neo-cons.

Wed Jun 14 2006 12:45 PM


Mike of the Great White North:

Hey Tom, how do you feel about giving up 293 million bucks to people who shoot at civilians for sport and trophy vids?

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/06/12.html#a8689

Actually i already know how you feel. But ill bet RWR is just happy as a clam. And with military investigations like that, Im sure NJ will be happy with whatever justice is handed out over the Haditha massacre.

Wed Jun 14 2006 2:13 PM


tomaig:

"America is now known for torture"

But only among the simple-minded, the easily led, and those predisposed to hate America anyway.

"Billions of $ have been given to the likes of Halliburton. This money was STOLEN from the taxpayers. WE WANT IT BACK!"

So it was just handed over to them? Halliburton didn't do anything at all to earn their money (like provide logistical support in a war zone) - the treasury just forked it over?

"Economic justice will be a huge rallying cry..."
Maybe in Madison but "rallying cries" from the Communist Manifesto don't play well in the more red areas of the country.

"Only sociopathic profiteers would support this kind of lunacy."

So in your book, anyone who is not vehemently and melodramatically against the war in Iraq is a profiteer with no conscience.

If this is an example of how the "battle of hearts and minds is being won by progressives", well color me unimpressed by your winning ways.

And always - ALWAYS - the tacit "We're smarter and more caring and just downright BETTER than you rubes" underpinning the liberal view...

Wed Jun 14 2006 3:13 PM


Tom from Madison:

Billions of dollars are missing and you're attacking those who noticed? You must be both lacking a conscience and be profiting from this war in order to support the continued wasting of money the way we've been doing it in Iraq. BILLIONS ARE MISSING!

The evidence of torture is clear. It's systematic. It's not just in Iraq, it's Bush policy. The attorney general and secretary of defense keep arguing that it's allowable. IT NEVER IS. We have secret prisons and not-so-secret detainment camps which Bush contends are human-rights-free zones.

All of this is making us weaker, not stronger. Worse it is creating more terrorists every day. We can and must do a lot better.

Wed Jun 14 2006 5:54 PM


Dave E.:

This polarizing wingnuttery stance is getting so ridiculous.

Trotting out the tired old "hate America" meme. Really. Think about that accusation. It's becoming a little cartoonish.

Also funny, you begin by wagging your finger at "simple-minded" and "easily-led" folk, then close with expressing disdain for those who do exactly what you just did.

Whatever substance you do challenge, you challenge with absurd statements - common tactic among people unable to engage in honest discussion.

That's a pretty weak post tomaig. There was occasionally some original thinking in your older posts, but alas...it appears the tank is empty.

That, or your just following RWR's demotion to troll status here and only posting two sentence talking point boilerplate. At least NJ attempts to provide some substantial (term used very loosely) counterpoints - I respect the guy for at least trying.

Wed Jun 14 2006 7:08 PM


Tom from Madison:

Perhaps Tomaig is waiting for the Iraqis to stand up and post for themselves!

Wed Jun 14 2006 7:37 PM


Right Wing Robby:

America is not known for torture. The majority of Americans know that if laws were broken, its was by a select few and does not represent the entire military. Unless you are 'simple minded' and 'easily lead', then you will believe what the NYT wants you too.

Most people understand this. You libs actually do understand this but would rather the USA be hated throughout the world. So you march the gitmo story on the front page for , well ever, hoping to sway public opinion against this country in an effort to attack Bush, for political gain. politics?

There are examples of this not only in the military. You libs had the Rove story wrapped up. Turns out you were WRONG. The silence from the liberal media on Rove now is stunning. Do you care you were all wrong? No, all you care about is that the front page has plenty of negative comments about republicans and the Rove story was just a vehicle to make that happen. Thats why the reporting on the once all important story dissappears, it cant hurt Bush so you want to make sure its as under-reported as possible. Cant have "Rove Not Guilty", all over the internet. Mentioning Rove now is a 'distraction' to the issues. HAHA

Haditha, GUILTY AS CHARGED. No trial needed. Why? Because you want America to look good? No, because your willing to trash your own country in an effort to make a President look bad.

If our American soldiers were only given the same due course in the news as terrorists are, that would be something.

Why is it that when America looks bad, Libs win. And when America look good, liberals lose? You are invested in defeat. The best thing that could happen for liberals is for us to lose in Iraq. Then you could say; "we told you so, vote for us."

I am happy that you are so invested in defeat, I hope you enjoy it this Nov as you have for the last 6 years.

Thu Jun 15 2006 12:55 PM


Dave E.:

You need to stop dry humping the flag, the military, and Dear Leader and grow two things:

1) an ability to refrain from dismissing anything you disagree with as liberal and ask why, and
2) the ability to explain yourself. Otherwise the outrage you display coming from your patriotism makes your patriotism come off as merely a fetish.

You claim that more than half the US (the thinking majority that believe Iraq has been woefully mishandled) desires for the nation to be hated throughout the world. This is a profound charge and a charge that without further explanation, doesn't make sense.

I'm sure you'll now take the time to elaborate such a vitriolic and seemingly irrational charge, yes?

Thu Jun 15 2006 1:58 PM


Tom from Madison:

Vitriol comes out when the truth strikes a nerve and the facts don't support a rebuttal.

By any objective measure, this war has been a failure to accomplish its STATED objectives. So what has this war accomplished?
1) It gave Bush an rationale for increasing his own power.
2) It payed off handsomely to war-profiteering investors.
3) it helped neo-con chicken hawks live out their fantasies.

It's time to shut off the gravy train to the pioneers and rangers. The Bush regime owes way to much to a select few investors; way too little to John Q Public.

Thu Jun 15 2006 2:50 PM


Tom from Madison:

RWR continues to mis-represent the Karl Rove story as well. As a liberal, I favor getting the facts out and letting the people decide which suspects get indicted, convicted, etc.

There will be a finding of facts in the Scooter Libby trial. I don't think Karl will come off smelling like a rose. The American people will see how THEIR GOVERNMENT is operating. Trials have a way of generating press coverage. That's a good thing. Transparency is the enemy of the Unitary Executive.

Thu Jun 15 2006 3:11 PM


Tom from Madison:

Correction: I meant to say "...letting the criminal justice system decide..."

Thu Jun 15 2006 3:12 PM


tomaig:

"3) it helped neo-con chicken hawks live out their fantasies"
See? There's a prime example of why the Left keeps on losing time after time, election after election...because you state publicly and actually BELIEVE sophomoric fluff like that line.
Childish name-calling under the guise of
armchair-psychology....
Yet you consider yourself erudite and enlightened and of course, a more caring and kind and just downright better person than those awful red-state rubes.
For a group of folks who, by and large, cannot contain their effusive arrogance, it's really kind of absurd for you (the left) to assert that you're winning those same hearts and minds which you so disdain and despise and scorn.

Fri Jun 16 2006 8:12 AM


Tom from Madison:

tomaig:

see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

the Project for a New American Century isn't something I or any liberal dreamed up. It's being implemented by Paul Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld. Worldwide dominion is the end goal of this NEO-CON group. The agenda was spelled out quite clearly in 1997.

The US continues to maintain a world-wide network of military bases far in excess of what is needed for defense of America. Our military budget is by far the largest in the world. This is not what we need to face the threat of world-wide terror. In fact we are creating terrrorists every day. It is anti-democracy to expect any "free" country to accept domination by the US or anyone else--even if it is done in the "name" of freedom.

There's nothing erudite about pointing this out. However, YOUR ACCUSATION of elitism helps the neo-cons recruit their anti-intellectual base. Plenty of non-university types have joined the progressive ranks as the deceptions concerning the real cost of having a LONG WAR continue to mount. Neo-cons are hoping no one remembers the assurances Americans were given before the war. Progressives and honest people of every political stripe only have to check the record and their own memories to realize we were all sold a bill of goods.

Fri Jun 16 2006 10:30 AM


Mike of the Great White North:

"3) it helped neo-con chicken hawks live out their fantasies"
[Tomaig]See? There's a prime example of why the Left keeps on losing time after time, election after election...because you state publicly and actually BELIEVE sophomoric fluff like that line.
Childish name-calling under the guise of armchair-psychology....]

Tomaig seems to that point 3 was namecalling instead of actual fact....

http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=%20NEWS%3B%20Chickenhawks

So lets review. PNAC created by neocons. Neocons are chickenhawks. They are now indeed living out this disasterous fantasy. What part of point 3 is inaccurate? Or is it the use of the word chickenhawk. Ok hows about this then...

""3) it helped neo-cons, [person's enthusiastic about war, provided someone else fights it; particularly when that enthusiasm is undimmed by personal experience with war; most emphatically when that lack of experience came in spite of ample opportunity in that person’s youth],
to live out their fantasies"

Better?

Fri Jun 16 2006 1:18 PM


Tom from Madison:

Well said!

Fri Jun 16 2006 2:48 PM


Tom from Madison:

From USA today, April 1, 2003 -- No foolin'
http://www.usatoday.com/educate/war28-article.htm

Changing rhetoric of war

* Feb. 7, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, to U.S. troops in Aviano, Italy: "It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."

Progressives knewe the war would be MUCH LONGER. This is a clear case of Realism prevailing over Chicken-Hawk Fantasy.

Fri Jun 16 2006 3:10 PM


nmnmbmn:

bnbvnvnv

Tue Sep 26 2006 4:43 PM


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