From Jim Gilliam's blog archives
You can't win without getting your hands dirty

September 1, 2004 3:20 PM

Eric Boehlert's Salon piece on GOP dirty tricks and the media's complicity is worth reading.

Paul Alexander, creator of the upcoming film Brothers in Arms: "The only way to beat Karl Rove and that level of viciousness is to hit back harder. If Democrats don't understand that ... well then, you can finish that sentence."

More from the archive in Politics.

You can't win without getting your hands dirty (09.01.2004)

Next Entry: Warner Brothers kills documentary "that condemns, basically, war" (09.02.2004)
Previous Entry: Those Eccentric Billionaires! (09.01.2004)

Read the 10 comments.

Right Wing Robby:

Dirty tricks, swift boat liars, blah blah blah.

If John Kerry is a hero and has a right to say what he wants, then the 250 other hero's have every right to do the same. Let’s keep in mind Kerry isn’t running on his Senate record, he certainly isn’t running on or mentioning his record between Vietnam and the Senate. The only reason he is "qualified" to be president is because he was in Vietnam for 4.5 months.

If he wants that to be his issue, he should expect it to be looked at, turned over flipped upside down and given an enema.

Listen, anyone who tries to belittle Kerry's service who wasn’t there is off base. The bottom line is, he put himself in harms way and that needs to be respected the same way we need to respect our soldiers who are in Iraq today.
But that also means we can’t be selective in which veterans we respect and which we don’t. Fair enough? Attacking the Swift vets for speaking out is the SAME THING as attacking Kerry. The right calls Kerry a liar, the left is calling them liars. It should stop.


Imagine yourself in a Vietnam torture camp. You have been there for 5+ years. You have been tortured, beaten, starved and are in a living hell. You have tape worm, ring worm and dysentery. The enemy tries endlessly to pull information from you to help there cause but for the love of your country you take the torture instead. Then, while being tortured, over the loudspeaker comes a former navy man giving freely and willingly the information you just took 5 years of torture to prevent.

If these guys have a beef with Kerry, I'd say they earned the right to speak there mind. Furthur more, Kerry needs to tell him team of lawyers trying to get them to stop talking, to back off.

Wed Sep 1 2004 4:13 PM


Watch This.

Wed Sep 1 2004 5:14 PM


"Imagine yourself in a Vietnam torture camp."

McCain was in just such a camp, and he called the Swift Boat Liars' ads "dishonest and dishonerable".

Wed Sep 1 2004 5:15 PM


That was about the Swiftboatvets first ad that addressed Kerry's time in Vietnam. McCain has said that what Kerry did AFTER he returned from Vietnam is "fair game". Let's see what McCain says about the latest swifties ad.

Thu Sep 2 2004 7:17 AM

Tom from Madison:

Nixon, Henry Kissinger, and company did America a huge dis-service by continuing to cling to the claim that the Viet Nam war was just after there had been sustained, illegal bombings of Cambodia and Laos. These actions killed tens of thousands of innocent people. There were also secret actions by special forces. E.g., the "Tiger Force" murdered many innocent villagers in an attempt to eliminate support for the Viet Cong. Also remember the napalm dropped to defoliate the forests. Innocent people were burned alive when this happened. Certainly there were honorable, well-intentioned actions as well. But there was too little discussion of the truly evil killing of civilians.

Kerry dared to tell the truth about this. He should be commended for telling the truth. This takes courage and shows character. Put that up against the other rich kid who had his Dad keep him stateside--Some display of character!

Bottom line: US forces were involved in killing large numbers of civilians in a war that was being done in the name of liberating them. Does this sound familiar?

Thu Sep 2 2004 8:02 AM

Roy DeMeo:

I’m beginning to think the Dems want to lose this election cycle. I mean the neocons throw softballs that they ought to be able to bat out of the park and they do nothing. I’m not a political strategist, but I would think delegates wearing Purple Heart band-aids ought to have been a relatively easy one to turn around on them. Find out who the delegate(s) were and if they served, probably not. Did they send any of their kids to serve, probably not. Play it up. Get some vets to play it up. C’mon, do they just give them that?

Rick Santorum (a frothy mixture of anal lube and plain old shit) is out at the convention exposing family values or some tripe. Dig up the dirt on this guy. Speaking of family values, Rush and Bush are yucking it up on Rush’s show the other day. His wife just filed for divorce. That is his third. Play it up. Mention his stance on drugs and the striking fact he’s addicted to oxy’s. C’mon these are easy. Do they want to lose???? Hanity, can’t listen to him for more than 10 minutes without catching him in a lie. Don’t let him get away with it. People that aren’t hantitized should call in and question his facts. And repeat.

Lastly and most importantly, VOTE. Get your friends to vote. Get your co-workers to vote. Vote.

Thu Sep 2 2004 8:39 AM


So nothing about the issues, eh Roy? Just attack the personal lives of ...who? Rush Limbaugh?
Last time I checked, RL isn't running for any office.
Dig up dirt on Santorum, harrass delegates for wearing their Purple-Heart BandAids. Ignore JFKetchup's record (or lack of one) in the Senate and....harangue the delegates: "Did they send any of their kids to serve" What? Send them? What world do you live in?

Thu Sep 2 2004 10:27 AM

Roy DeMeo:

I think I’ve got to stop obsessing about this stuff or it’s gonna drive me crazy. But, I do have to say just one more thing. This sight lets anybody say anything, no matter how what the point of view.
I’ve often wondered how Rush and Hanity and their ilk get so many gushing callers telling them their so handsome or whatever and hardly anybody that disagrees with them (who’s not a complete idiot for obvious strawman value). Well, today I went to a conservative blog, and there was a thread on Rush. Like 100 posts saying what a swell fellow and outstand patriot he is. I posted a question, after going through the sign-up process, asking the status of his narcotic addiction and musing if his soon to be third ex-wife would dish dirt on him or if she had to sign some sort of non-disclosure agreement or something. No profanity, no wild accusations, just a question of facts. Well, it never made it to the thread. The administrator deleted it and called me a troll and revoked my account. No profanity, no slander, just a question about facts. He had/has a narcotic addiction – fact, he’s stated it himself. My question was to the effect of how was that progressing. His third wife, Marta, has filed for divorce – fact, at least that’s what I read in the news. Sometimes divorces get messy. I was just curious and yes, I was trying to stir up the faithful a bit and maybe get/give some abuse. But, man they were swift. I mean my reply never made it onto the board. Now that’s damage control. That’s the difference in a nutshell between neocons and regular people. No dissent. Party line. Stay on message.
I urge anybody who has the time and inclination to post the question on concerning Rush’s convalescence. If you got the time. It’s worth a try.

Thu Sep 2 2004 10:32 AM

Tom from Madison:

Rush has taken a strange road in the pursuit of "justice". This includes taking out full page ads in the local paper arguing that he is THE VICTIM of special prosecution. This is the same guy who continues do dish out the party line about John Edwards and evil trial lawyers.

Never mind his own family history and the BIG BUCKS he personally is spending on attorney fees to keep his sorry ass out of prison.

The sad thing is how revered Rush is among the true believers. It would seem Rush's followers have finally started to smell the stench emitting from the top of his dung-heap broadcast network. How pathetically absurd that conservatives still keep trying to blame the liberals for their own demise!

Thu Sep 2 2004 11:33 AM

raging red:

Something I've noticed in reading blogs and the comments posted on them is that very often people don't seem to actually read what the blogger has posted. I'm not trying to pick a fight or insult anyone here, and I realize that it can be easy to get off-topic in commenting on blogs (I sometimes have that problem myself), but did anyone actually read the Salon article that is the subject of Jim's post?

I just read the entire thing, and none of the comments here seem to address its content at all. It's about the current state of the media. The issue transcends party affiliation, or at least, it should. I find it disturbing that the media (and I feel fine about lumping them into one big category, because they all seem to be doing it) no longer sees its role as that of a truth-seeker, but rather more as an announcer at a prize fight, just giving us the stats on each fighter and the blow-by-blow. As the article points out, the press only covers four things in a campaign - polls, scandal, mistakes, and attacks.

The media simply gives us the he said/she said, rather than trying to boil issues down to their FACTS. The public feeds into this he said/she said, because one side is bound to be the side they agree with. I don't know about the rest of you, but I would much rather hear the TRUTH than just "my side's" argument repeated back to me. In fact, I don't want to have a "my side" at all. I'M on my side, all by myself. I want to hear actual facts and form my own opinions about them. And that's the role the media is supposed to play.

I'm afraid that the comments to this post and others reflect the problem - everyone these days seems hard-wired to just hear what they want to hear. We read something about "Swift Vets" in a post, and we just begin ranting, repeating the same old arguments, whether for or against. I hope I'm not coming off as condescending or anything, because I have noticed myself doing this from time to time. I am trying to make it a goal to elevate the debate above and beyond the partisan rhetoric.

Thu Sep 2 2004 12:08 PM

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