From Jim Gilliam's blog archives
Horribly devastating...

November 3, 2004 1:03 PM

Sorry for not posting sooner, or live blogging last night, Yes, I was drowning in Newcastle, and just woke up.

We failed, and quite miserably. Never underestimate faith's wonder working power to trump all reason.

Fundamentally, we need progressive infrastructure -- the right's been pumping hundreds of millions of dollars into think tanks and what not for over two decades, we're only now starting that infrastructure. It will take awhile.

The fundamentalist Christians had a huge victory today, but it took decades for them to get to this point. Obviously, we still have a lot of work to do.

More from the archive in Elections, Religion.

Horribly devastating... (11.03.2004)

Next Entry: An aggressive, strong opposition. (11.04.2004)
Previous Entry: Today is the day... (11.02.2004)

Read the 41 comments.

Wild Eyed Anarchist:

I feel sick to my stomach. We are living in the American Christian era as I'm sure children will read one day, perhaps 10-20 years from now. The evangelical Christians call the shots. The country is more polarized than it's ever been and this will continue to grow.

I'm apparently not on just a different page than the majority of voting Americans, but am in an entirely different book. I feel I am a foreigner in this country (particularly where I live, in the South) and I think 52,000,000 other Americans feel equally disturbed.

Plans to move, at least out of this region, are underway.

Wed Nov 3 2004 1:57 PM

Right Wing Robby:

America has spoken.

George W. Bush will be President for 4 more years. I can’t possibly sum up my joy in this fact with any words and if I could I wouldn’t do it out of respect for all of you.

I do believe this to be a mandate of men, and less of ideas. For Republicans this election was about George W. Bush. For Democrats this election was about George W. Bush.
You can’t win an election that way. In this sense it might be ok for Democrats to shoot the messenger. There is no ballet that says “vote bush out”. You have to actually pick Kerry, and that was his downfall.

The polling has stopped and the campaign spinning is over. I, for one, am exhausted and am going to be spending much less time on politics. I need a break from the talking heads, the talking points, the arguments and bitterness that has been so prevalent over the last 2-3 years.

Wed Nov 3 2004 2:02 PM


I've already moved on.

Ancient history.

The question is "What do we need to do now in order to discredit the Republic Party and this president?" Because ultimately that's what it's all about. Until the Republic Party fall down go boom, Democrats will never win another election. Period. As Republicans are fond of saying, "You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs."

Republican credibility needs to be shattered. Into a million pieces.

Left alone, Bush and his fellow Republicans are in the process of a major meltdown of disastrous proportions. When it happens, we need to be able to staple it to their collective forehead like a scarlet letter, so people will be ashamed to call themselves Republicans.

Wed Nov 3 2004 2:07 PM

Enrique in Hollywood:

I agree with you Paul that the Republicans are on pace for a meltdown of epic proportions, and that we have to find ways to discredit them and expose them for the fradulant band of liars that they are.

I think that the Democrats need to get in the mud and start playing dirty. We think of ourselves as these intelectuals that want the world to be pretty and nice, but I think it's time to start throwing honest words around, like LIAR and CRIMINAL, and not play politics for the sake of winning votes. As we have just seen, being nice only gets you defeated in in the Midwest and South and Congressional districts throughout the nation.

Wed Nov 3 2004 2:36 PM

Enrique in Hollywood:

I agree with you Paul that the Republicans are on pace for a meltdown of epic proportions, and that we have to find ways to discredit them and expose them for the fradulant band of liars that they are.

I think that the Democrats need to get in the mud and start playing dirty. We think of ourselves as these intelectuals that want the world to be pretty and nice, but I think it's time to start throwing honest words around, like LIAR and CRIMINAL, and not play politics for the sake of winning votes. As we have just seen, being nice only gets you defeated in in the Midwest and South and Congressional districts throughout the nation.

Wed Nov 3 2004 2:36 PM

raging red:

This is the first time I have ever cried about the results of an election.

I started out this election as an anyone-but-Bush person, but at some point (sometime after the DNC, I think) I was not just interested in voting Bush out of office, I became genuinely interested in voting Kerry into office. I think he would have been a very good President. So I personally WAS voting FOR something, not just against something.

Jim, I hope you plan on sticking around (in the world of politics and media critique, that is). Democracy needs you.

You're totally right about the need for a progressive infrastructure. I think it's happening. Hopefully it will be set up for a success four years from now. For me, Bush will go down in history as the worst President of my lifetime (god, I hope nobody worse ever comes along), but also as the person who lit a fire under the ass of progressives everywhere.

Robby, I can't say I'll be sad to see you go.

(By the way, Jim, I couldn't get the link in your post to work. Don't know if it's just me or if it's the link.)

Wed Nov 3 2004 2:44 PM


Move on people or just move literally, it’s over.

Liberal policies like Kerry’s “Healthcare should be a right” etc. etc. will never gain majority support in a country that was built on personal responsibility and capitalism. I’m not sure why some people still live here if they don’t agree with that.

Common sense or at least it should have been but evidently was not.

Wed Nov 3 2004 3:21 PM

Enrique in Hollywood:

Once again, comments made by "living poor/voting rich" guy. If you had any balls, you would have atleast put your name down.

Wed Nov 3 2004 3:31 PM


I will enjoy watching America stumble and slowly die in the next four years.

Wed Nov 3 2004 3:36 PM


Ha Ha drop dead communist bastards. Dont go away mad just go away.

Wed Nov 3 2004 4:24 PM


Click on my name for the source URL of this post:

- - - - -

Nicholas Kristof is quite right in pointing out that the Republicans succeeded in persuading large numbers of Average Americans to vote against their own best interests. I do not believe, however, that the Democrats lost the election because John Kerry failed to communicate the fact that he embraces religious values that are important to most Americans. I would argue that they lost because they simply do not understand how Republican strategists use religious issues---and every other sort of issue---to win the only campaign that matters: the Image Campaign.

Republican strategists pulled off yet another big victory because they understand something that their Democratic counterparts do not: the state of mind of The Swing Voter. The typical Swing Voter knows that he does not understand the subtle details of the issues well enough to make a wise decision, so he relies on his "impressions" of the candidates. Is this candidate someone I can trust to rule over me? Understanding this, the Republicans focus all of their efforts on defining Democrats in the minds of the Swing Voter in a negative, vaguely threatening way. They do this by relying primarily on negative campaigning.

Republicans know that accusations and insinuations are persuasive to Swing Voters primarily because they are typically headline-readers and sound-byte-nibblers who do not seek out in-depth explanations of complex issues. If the media reports that a Republican has accused a Democrat of having a character flaw, the average Swing Voter will tend to believe it unless it is successfully answered. These attacks not only create a negative image of their opponents; they also implicitly suggest that Republicans are devoid of the character flaws they are attacking. It enables them to indirectly claim that they are noble & virtuous before the electorate.

Republicans understand precisely what they are doing when they speak disparagingly of "those Democrats." It's a variation of the "us vs. them" social comparisons that are so common among high school students. Throughout October, Swing Voters constantly saw video clips of George Bush standing in front of his adoring supporters, ridiculing John Kerry with his smirky smile. People do not tend---on a natural level---to want to be associated with those who are being ridiculed.

Average Americans who put Republican candidates into office with their votes do so because they are identifying with those whom they intuitively perceive to be social "winners." They don't understand all of the nuances of the issues, but they do have this impression that there is something "defective" with The Democrats. Once they've become invested in their identity with the Republican Party, they instinctively defend Republican policies even when those policies are likely to harm them. In order for the Democratic Party to win these Average Americans back, they must begin to fight fire with fire.

If they want to again become the majority party, Democrats need to define The Republican Politician as a DECEIVING, MANIPULATIVE, SCHEMING, MEAN-SPIRITED, CON-ARTIST who willfully and gleefully assassinates the character of any innocent victim that stands in the way of his rabid lust for power. They need to create an image of The Republican Politician in the minds of the Average American that is instinctively feared. In defining The Republican Politician as essentially manipulative, Democrats will also indirectly be defining themselves as The Protectors of the Average American.

Democrats tend not to want to participate in "character attacks" because they maintain an idealistic hope that a respectful debate of the issues of the day is possible in a civilized society, but they really have no choice. The Republicans have no such inhibitions re: the use of scorched earth tactics and character assassination. Every attack and accusation made by the Republicans must be used to define them as smiling, disingenuous weasels. In doing so, they must express both derision and wisdom and show an eagerness to explain what the Republicans are up to. They need to take the time to point out and explain in television commercials the misrepresentations, the deceptions, the intent, and the strategy of the Republican attacks.

It will also be important for Democrats to spend more and more time ridiculing the stupidity of Republican policies and---implicitly---those who embrace/defend them. This is necessary in order to socially isolate those who belong to the Republican Party (or to at least counteract the social pressure on Swing Voters that is created when Republicans ridicule Democrats). If the Democrats fail to do this, the Average American will not even listen to what they have to say re: "the issues." If their image of Democrats is sufficiently negative, they won't want to be persuaded because they'd want to protect an identity that had become very important to them.

James J. Kroeger

Wed Nov 3 2004 4:32 PM


I'm Christian myself and I don't support Bush. That's because I'm not totally blindsighted by the fact that Bush is one of the most atrocious presidents we've ever had. Unfortunately his pandering to the religious folk works cuz he's somehow convinced them that he's doing this all cuz God told him so... I don't think God approves of this crap. Anyway, it's another four years of "internets" (if you watched the debates, you know what I'm talking about). We need you Jim.

Wed Nov 3 2004 5:36 PM

evil conservative666:

Well, bitch all you want, but you have four more years of him, and it's gonna sound pretty petty after awhile, no matter how strong your point may be.

I was prepared to wish Kerry best of luck had he won, as I don't believe he would ruin the country, I just believed there was a better choice for a multitude of reasons. I don't feel that I'd be too far out there for asking the same favor now. After all, the failure of a President is the failure of a country, and nobody should want that.

Wed Nov 3 2004 5:49 PM


It'll be a sad day indeed when in the face of relentless defeat we recoil from our standards and cheerfully jitterbug ourselves into Karl Rove's smelly loafers. To even entertain the thought of delving even deeper into that game may whiff of pragmatism, but, frankly, what's the point of pragmatism if suck at it? Karl Rove didn't win this election. We lost it. We lost it because we could barely convince ourselves, much less the rest of America, that our ideas were better.

Wed Nov 3 2004 5:55 PM


sorry enrique my name is dave my email is care to address the comment this time?

Move on people or just move literally, it’s over.
Liberal policies like Kerry’s “Healthcare should be a right” etc. etc. will never gain majority support in a country that was built on personal responsibility and capitalism. I’m not sure why some people still live here if they don’t agree with that.
Common sense or at least it should have been but evidently was not. Are you people anti-capitalist?

Wed Nov 3 2004 8:15 PM


Another obvious point is that maybe you should thin about moving to countries that do support systems you want (ie: public healthcare etc.) and stop taking advantage of our capitalist system. You can talk to talk but will you walk the walk? Of course not.

Also I wanted to say thanks to people like Al Gore,, Michael Moore, Al Franken, and the people that support them.

You actually helped Bush win the election!! If you have separated yourself from their agenda's, real democrats might have actually had a chance to win. But instead you embraced the spin (bush lied about wmd’s, the only reason we are in Iraq is for oil, etc. etc.) and exaggerations and it actually pushed right leaning democrats and independents to vote for Bush. Good job again, dumbasses.

Seriously though can I sign up to campaign for the DNC in 4 years? This stuff SHOULD be common sense. Keep up the good work guys, you will never get anywhere. Lesson learned? Probably not.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Wed Nov 3 2004 8:30 PM


Damn! Why did I forget to post this. I'm probably too late.

Jim, if you make it anywhere near Wales, order some Brains. It's a thick rich guinness-like beer which drinks like a power shake. Not to be missed.

I guess they probably don't have it in England though. Ah well. Enjoy your flat English ale.


Wed Nov 3 2004 9:09 PM



Thanks for rubbing salt in the wound. It's healing much faster now.

Wed Nov 3 2004 9:11 PM



everything you have posted here points to two things: first, that you are entirely brainwashed by the right wing propoganda machine (that I'm sure you don't believe exists); and second, that the people and sites you have mentioned (Moore, Franken, etc.) actually do pose themselves as threats to your very "blessed" GOP party. If the people who you mentioned were not threats, your party would not have demonized them as they did.

It is very clear that Bush won the election because he was able to get the majority of America to believe in his faulty dogma. You are one of those people, Dave, and as such, are a very dim witted fool. It's amazing that you could possibly come to this site and not take the time to investigate its content. You're an ignorant fool. have fun as the president who you elected fucks you in the ass

Wed Nov 3 2004 9:38 PM

Dave E.:

I feel more invigorated than ever. I can't wait to sink my teeth into these next four years.

Kinda like how the comedian profits off mocking the lunacy of others, I now feel even more substantiated in my beliefs and my virtue.

My brand new favorite old quote, and very apropos:

"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" - Thomas Paine

Give 'em hell, Jim.

Wed Nov 3 2004 11:41 PM

Dave E.:

Obviously...I have nothing to do with this 'dave' charlatan who has besmirtched this thread and website with his explicitly demonstrable buffoonery.

This buffoon 'dave' gives all true Daves a very bad name, literally. I now excommunicate him from the secret society of Dave worldwide. (We're kinda like the freemasons).

Thu Nov 4 2004 12:02 AM


Nick, first I'm very pro-capitalism. I'm not republican and don’t agree with any of Bush's religious based policies.

Being pro-capitalism ( means of course I am against most if not all social entitlement programs, etc. But I'm sure you’re smart enough to know all that and everything else I stand for already so I'll save my fingers.

Second, care to take a shot at why I am wrong in my analysis of why Kerry lost? Tell me why liberals want to shift away from capitalism? Why capitalism is bad for the USA? You know, actually address my statement? I know it’s hard but try to focus.

The liberal agenda failed miserable and I am actually wondering what the thought process is of people on this site? It obvious that big mistakes were made and certain agenda’s will never win here in the USA. So please enlighten me why I’m wrong about all of that and etc will help win the next big election.

Thu Nov 4 2004 12:02 AM

Dave E.:

(I rarely launch personal attacks...but what the hell. This one here seems like a good time.)

Dammit ex-dave! You've been ejected from the S.S.O.D.! I thought we disappeared you already...

Quit your proselytizing! No one here wants to take your crazy pills!

Turn your lava lamp off, walk upstairs outta your mom's basement, and go gloat to her about Bush until she makes you acquiesce to finish off cropping her friggin' bunions... us all a favor. Go away.

Thu Nov 4 2004 12:27 AM


lol, ok guys I'm outta here that’s all for me. I will bother you no more. I'm not trying to annoy anyone.

Just thought I'd point out some pretty obvious things that I think needs to be looked at and thought about if you care to actually WIN an election. Again I'm not a republican and I'm not religious.

Thu Nov 4 2004 12:31 AM

Dave E.:

Point taken. We'll be sure to forward your feedback to the DNC.

A'thank ya.

Thu Nov 4 2004 12:33 AM


You know you guys talk about me being blind or whatever. Looks as if some here are blinding themselves as well. Time to open you eyes people and really take a look at things. If you dont you will never win.

Thu Nov 4 2004 12:34 AM

Dave E.:

You can lead an ex-dave to the edge of the cliff, but you can't make him jump.

So you just have to push him.

Thu Nov 4 2004 12:40 AM


"The question is "What do we need to do now in order to discredit the Republic Party and this president?"… I think it's time to start throwing honest words around, like LIAR and CRIMINAL, and not play politics for the sake of winning votes…....It will also be important for Democrats to spend more and more time ridiculing the stupidity of Republican policies and---implicitly---those who embrace/defend them..….It is very clear that Bush won the election because he was able to get the majority of America to believe in his faulty dogma. You are one of those people, Dave, and as such, are a very dim witted fool."

Wow. Talk about your "elephant in the living room” You folks really don't get it, do you? You STILL are suffering from the delusion that "Our ways are the best ways and if you can't see that you're stupid, gullible, criminal,
bigoted, fundamentalist fascists."

Just can't get your minds around the fact that the policies and motivations and beliefs of today's Democratic Party are not shared by the majority of Americans, can you?

Oh and your candidate? Not too appealing to those vast swaths of fly-over country. A rich liberal gigolo from Massachusetts who, after his third-of-a-tour in Vietnam, couldn't WAIT to get back to the States to accuse his fellow servicemen of war crimes and atrocities? This patrician asshole who’s never had a private sector job since high school? This embodiment of East Coast Snobbery? THIS guy is the best you could come up with as a CinC of the American military and leader of the free world?
And a running mate who made Dan Quayle look like an elder statesman?

Keep on with your arrogant pomposity and watch the Dems spiral more and more towards irrelevance.

Thu Nov 4 2004 5:20 AM

David Haley:

From the London News Reviews:

George Bush? Again? May the saints and angels preserve us. November 03, 2004

Oh America, what have you done?
You’ve put him back in.

The 2004 election result means one thing for certain: great swathes of America are as DUMB AS FUCK. Too dumb to live, let alone vote.

You stupid, good-for-nothing, hick fucks, sitting there in your stretchy trousers, wrapped in your stars and stripes, clutching at each others’ fat hands and singing God Bless America while your blessed commander-in-fucking-chief sells the world for a quick buck. You whooping twits, sucking up the lies like mother’s milk. You stupid stupid fucks. You deserve to die. Choke on your fat-burgers you cretinous losers. Fuck you all. Sorry - fuck y’all. Do you understand that? You cow-brained pricks.

Are you really so violently thick that you can’t get beyond thinking: “Yup, we’s at war, and the President he’s a good man and he’s gonna whip those commie Arabs…” --- oh whatever --- Christ, there’s no point in trying to peer into your minds, you sack of shit morons. Might as well poke a beached jellyfish with a stick.

It is almost impossible, for an outsider, or in fact anyone who isn’t educationally subnormal, to imagine what it must be like to be a Bush voter. Amanda McLoughlin, a London News Review contributor, was in the States to see the madness unfold:

I'm in the unfortunate position of being on the West Coast and watching the horrific results as they come in. Who the hell are these bastards who vote for Bush? I don't understand it at all.
So, thanks to you stupid bastards, the world has to suffer another four years of Bush. How many more wars will that mean? How many pipelines? How much SHIT do we have to swallow?

God bless America.

Thu Nov 4 2004 7:05 AM

Independent Jones:

I, for one, hope with all my heart that somehow this country does find away to heal the divisions and find a balance between the extremes on both sides. Progress and prosperity is in all of our best interests, we just define it differently. Do I think we will be able to do this? No. I think things will become far more divisive.

The only solice I can take is knowing that Cheney will not be running for president in '08, but then I remember that there is always Jeb.

Thu Nov 4 2004 7:11 AM

Right Wing Robby:

Raging Red,

I never said I was going away, Im just not going to spend time defending Bush and his policies. There is no need to anymore. So dont cry, Ill still be around, just not as much.

Ill crawl back into the rug now, continue your the "hate in 08" plan.

Thu Nov 4 2004 8:10 AM


What's a matter with the democrats in this post. All of you are clearly reacting from the emotional parts of your brain. YOU LOST get over it. Post after post in here clearly states you are out to hurt this country and hope for failure. Do you all really wish this country goes to hell in the next four years? The overwheling majority of Americans made thier choice. All you people can do is wish the worst on them. You all should be ashamed to call yourselves Americans!

Thu Nov 4 2004 8:18 AM


Yes we political moderates lost to the religous right.

Yes capitalism triumphed over social concerns.

Heck, maybe the majority of Americans don't share my beliefs that we're all part of this country and should look out for each other.

I will not stoop to mud flinging. I will go out of my way to point out problems to those I know and meet in my daily life though. I will try to make a change in my home town. I will try to be active as a grass roots type of guy.

For those of you saying that a president can't crush our country in just 4 years, you forget he's already had a 4 year head start.

So far big business is in, environmental protection is out.

Hate is trendy, equal rights is anti-god.

I believe that a ground swell is happening and I intend to help push it all the way to the top.

Ken in Washington State.

Thu Nov 4 2004 11:45 AM



"I will not stoop to mud flinging."

Well, I certainly will. Don't be such a wuss. Get your hands dirty. Come on, this is gonna be fun. Let's bring the War Party to its knees.

Thu Nov 4 2004 12:09 PM


Note to trolls: I am not out to destroy America. I'm out to destroy the War Party. I don't hate America, I hate you. Get it straight.

Now, begone, pinheads.

Thu Nov 4 2004 12:14 PM

Roy DeMeo:

I’ve given a lot of thought to the results of the election, especially the exit polling. I consider myself to be somewhat knowledgeable and educated and politically in tune. But, what the fuck are moral valves? And why are they so important that they trump jobs, health care, war, corruption, cronyism, you name it? Are gays really that important to so called Christians? I don’t get it. I’m not gay, but I could care less one way or another what someone wants to do in their private life. I feel really, really sad for my country that we have to endure four more years of this madman because of religious zealots. If you’re an evangelical I’d steer clear of me for a while if you know what’s good for you.

Thu Nov 4 2004 12:20 PM


I am writing this to gloat, so here I go I TOLD YOU SO!! The presidential election has confirmed my faith in America and the CONSERVATIVE values that make this country #1 in the world.

The American people have given this president a mandate to continue his progress/success in the Bush doctrine, with his administration he will do what needs to be done to safeguard this great land of ours against those fanatical enemies that want to destroy our way of life.

This election proves to the world that WE ARE UNITED behind our President in the war on terror.

President Bush is the “right” man at the “right” time in our history. He will also empower the American people by putting more $ back in our pockets.

The only problem I can foresee is if he extends his hand to the “other side”, I hope he learned his lesson from the last time when “they” shook his hand & with the other stabbed him in the back.

You Kerry supporters, liberals, progressives (whatever you call yourselves now) keep doing what you’re doing, keep going the way you’re going it only serves to strengthen our core values.

So now send out all your excuses on why Bush won, go ahead say that the American people weren’t informed, didn’t know what they were doing or didn’t understand the issues. Where are all your intellectuals now? Where are all the entertainers now? Are they not going to accept people’s money because those very people voted for Bush?

Remember this: redistrobution of wealth does not work, creating the circumstances where wealth can be created does!!!

Entertainers should entertain and keep their political agenda to themselves -OR- become a politician and advance that agenda (See Mr. Moore, for all you did America saw thru your lies and deceit and the same goes to the rest of Hollywood and the music industry).
Once again the American people collectively knocked you off your high horses and showed you where the real power in America is.

Mr. Gilliam I guess you’ll be vacating the country now, C YA! And those of you who say the economy is bad, there are no jobs also that the tax cuts should be repealed, please donate your upcoming tax refund checks to the U. S Government if you feel guilty I’m sure we can put them to good use.

P.S. - I do have one thing to say about Mr. Kerry, he has earned my respect by the way he conducted himself after he learned the results of the election.

P.P.S - Hillery, we'll be waiting you in four years.

Thu Nov 4 2004 2:01 PM

Right Wing Robby:

*standing ovation*

Thu Nov 4 2004 2:52 PM

Johan of the blue-yellow Neutrals:

To say that redistrobution never works is kind of wrong, it might not work in its extreme form that were used in the Soviet Union. But here in SE we have had a socialistic goverment since the 2nd world war (exception of 2 mandate periods of right wing coalition rule) and we are doing just fine (would have been even better if that 2nd right wing period didnt borrow every 3rd coin that it paid out). Many other european countries have a socialistic goverment as well, and yet we manage. But this is just a difference in values i guess, where we talk about the society and its best interest, you talk about the individual and its best interest.
So, taken to the extreme.. We are wannabie communists and you wannabie anarchists. Whichever is the better, well time will tell.

Why should normal people donate their money so that the goverment can do even more tax cuts? Which will happen if they see that they have to much money in the bank.

Entertainers are people as well, and can if they want express their political values just as anyone else. Just cause they have an place in the public eye doesnt imply that they cant express an opinion, if we would generelize that we could say that politicians (who also is in the public eye) shouldnt express their opinions... ooo, sorry they already dont, my fault.

P.S. You noticed that the kyoto protocoll passed? Thank you Russia. D.S.

P.P.S. Hillary, we will be waiting for you. D.D.S.

Sat Nov 6 2004 3:21 AM



I dont pay to see entertainers spout their political BS I pay them to entertain me, they use their celebrety as a bully pulpit.

Maybe you like having some one stick their hand in your pocket because you are making too much money and dont deserv it but I dont.

Only I know how best to use the money I've made!

On top of that, I know what Communism is and I dont think you're anywhere near it.

Anarchists by definition dont respect the rule of law I do I respected the rule of law four years ago when Bush won the 1st time, look at all the REAL anarchists every time the WTO has a meeting -They are form the: "If it feels good do it and to hell with everyone else" school of thought.

Donating money is great, I do it every time I go to church to help those who need it, during this past election the Dems said they would repeal the tax cuts because the needed the money for social programs so if they still feel that way by all means dont cash your tax refund check or turn it over to a/an group/organization like the Red Cross or any charity you see fit to ease you conscience

Sat Nov 6 2004 2:14 PM

Johan from the blue-yellow Neutrals:

We arent that far away from communism actually, heck the ruling goverment is now in coalision with the old communist party and the leader of that party is still calling himself a communist (even if the party is a socialistic party and not a communist anymore).

And the goverment is already digging in my pockets, heck even the church is (im still a member of the church, even though im an atheist). And that is fine, as long as they can show where the money has gone, and in the church case its the conserving of the old church building (that someone in the future might value, even if i dont)).

And im sure you are the best person to value your own money, but what would your money do you if the rest of the world has no food, no water, no electricity, no work, no future, no hope? Money doesnt taste good when eaten.

And the whole anarchist thing, it is (at least here) said that the furthest to the left is communists who would screw the individual over for the sake of the society and the furthest to the right is anarchiest who would screw the society over for the sake of the individual. And since I (grammar note: first person) see that the americans rather focus on the individual and that the europeans focus on the society...

Btw. did I mention that I really didnt like your country for withdrawing you africa aids help?

P.S. Dont usually watch WTO meetings, so cant comment on that. D.S.

Sat Nov 6 2004 3:05 PM

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